Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2017 16:01:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 20 11:01:35 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cfqP9-0005R7-00 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:01:35 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:40240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1cfqP7-0005Qx-5S for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:01:33 -0500 Received: from cm-84.213.17.174.getinternet.no ([84.213.17.174] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1cfqOk-0008Nz-N6; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:01:13 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Connection specific settings and proxies References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> <877f5j2i67.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvziif80c1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87a8a8paru.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8tpsi3ah.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87r33jnvn1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h94fqjq7.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3efzhmf5d.fsf_-_@stories> <87o9ykr6os.fsf@flea> <87mve3ffov.fsf__41803.1231420629$1486136780$gmane$org@HIDDEN> <87k293ny36.fsf@flea> <87d1enz4p2.fsf@HIDDEN> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEXd2MMsQFCdraFafXVk l5wlGyYRBw9MZFvg/BppAAACXUlEQVQ4jW2UQXObMBCFVepOr1UM4UoWdXyNEYmvMaiTM9ORcq3b QTkr2NXf71uBHbdTzWAYfXr7pPWuBKVRa/xoPemIYa0dveDpu68hhKkuZTmUpZQnkBkskh3WTzGG wlp3AQvVehfjDLL3ec1jNrkGabmeFncvBE0SwxizxQvPvRDik2eFXMBeyjXA0wJEJRcCkOOjAvjA oTKezqGYI+WCAcyFYNCRAsiDlDd/gb5V8M7B1vfiHEpw/I5avTa9zPfsLT4vihZA7WXe46u6VrSG arXdIpQx4soDW6Kejtt2v807nl99S4qWADhTLaKxxcqckqKpFE7RGaMNsUNm4olPLr6IVU4dAPKZ geyDLBK4YdAQIW0VCXFXACQPJOG+qoiqjJ5fxEc7ACSPI1Jfqa4jevY/szAOIRQjA2w9a7AcxTD+ eDyM8hyKQV2JjbWDt34sLqB9gm1DJ1uU3vvXvb0onlAqZhPh6kf3aq0EcGegVJCDPAy70SXFO9Ao Qemc8248K/qOwQYV6B/Xt6+nBNijNwKRNtOp8L+nWz8mD5tAZvpVf9wiQwfn3oFOCqXjLXbr7SDP 5si2MrtQ6vjwK75VK5TFcg784+QR++UtxlKs+gtoAZwfh++hnyI2zaHGWdEr51/yGBxMsNvF/Mih 0FAmmV9AVSVQK9UvoJgBZa0xranpAsoFzMVDGfXXoRwAFF2tyPwHUAML6h//BQ23JhJ8BRwD2cxt qx4SOMg57bx2fvgm4VuBB+pKa6qbOnU5mj/dI9aNnsE8cItMaMFZkEDcRb4T+Eo4hXmerf4Au67p 8pixktsAAAAASUVORK5CYII= Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:01:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87d1enz4p2.fsf@HIDDEN> (Michael Albinus's message of "Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:42:17 +0100") Message-ID: <m3r32svol5.fsf@stories> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Emacs developers <emacs-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes: >> So defining connection profiles would be something like this: >> >> (add-connection-profiles :user U :defgroup X :protocol Y :machine Z >> :profile 'UXYZ :vars '(...)) >> >> (add-connection-profiles :profile 'general :vars '(...)) > > Well, I'm a little bit lost. What does the defgroup here? I understand > that replaces what you have called initially an application, but I don't > see what defcustoms shall be placed now under the defgroup > hierarchy. Could you pls give an example? > > I also know that there are users reluctant to the customization > machinery. Wouldn't we loose them? Yeah, I think a special mode to tweak connection specific variables would be better, perhaps... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2017 17:42:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 12 12:42:34 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37277 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ccyAT-0002T5-SL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:42:34 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:52585) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1ccyAR-0002Sr-KI for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:42:32 -0500 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([62.227.218.242]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Meduu-1d1D6q2Ljk-00ODr8; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:42:20 +0100 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Connection specific settings and proxies References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> <877f5j2i67.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvziif80c1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87a8a8paru.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8tpsi3ah.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87r33jnvn1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h94fqjq7.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3efzhmf5d.fsf_-_@stories> <87o9ykr6os.fsf@flea> <87mve3ffov.fsf__41803.1231420629$1486136780$gmane$org@HIDDEN> <87k293ny36.fsf@flea> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:42:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87k293ny36.fsf@flea> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Mon, 06 Feb 2017 10:22:21 -0500") Message-ID: <87d1enz4p2.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ZLXXUyganlLoVQr5QQXkAelW4vuHdjZM4f9BB9WhT6Q0GqWhv2S OrCAMiZ//1YOn++EBA5FijHA8Gz1yUUmhZOh9vjd0J39J4DbJwEKTARjt7IYkyzOeuIpTeL VB4O6Ypo/PSCs4Y8TtFFIZ89c5PKEGdecVXIf7pqUgeitP7U3UqsIpH54J866xiau5kGQgb pLfiHDFATs3oHwH7lVZIQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:sotJaEV1peM=:cwStjg50/yq8tNguKukEGk aVDmVAaoJ4QfSOt9GtMc8wYxeDtz5IEjmgect7Sa5WzWd+WZS4+rYDch+Knw3HJLU6s0lOLfR 46K50fwBhWbgVLHhBjF81PY4HVbi4U5Jkf0UHqwjd3OdUeg4bzk5c3h/VvFAOPoRphJdvyN4n r4RZ0M60lA69KJrJBE/nP0N3OIJg44/J/3b9gHrXsJyhiNFK42uwsCi5QY0jh6uGwzE3Ho491 d7BixKdW618nyrE7WST5lzXBk5s/oVGKIif2wgq2HgacQwb4jFsM/YHGHLGMM2N3/G53HFo3O jb8jQ8APR2w3y9ild3Rw3Bm2k4mzfVZBQ4+4hrYaGt6M/BO2fJ2/xi4vCQSaPVb0BnebETJVD 0IADSDTRguDnZbbi9yJS0qmN9WKQHuxHr7u5nooGy8y3KDyz2aRZYQp0c6JPkzwcTkPrGrfdN EeC85JcHKrCYLQQo1QMRZ5pQza2SEw6dF/aMm2qQ1HriNgdghDraROFs1kwbJqDjUn+vxoEIo 4yExmxkM4N5kRkYVFE1jR34yVwQ8nhVL3W/3g4ibhZny/+rVCq6imW4fPPG+KPYjRiXfehWRA o8UcZP9BnM35wx3kD9X/ScA4lOTzwznYme61hVe/tn2CzVJuUivxznfqdBqj970oxLS4s6Lam /v0gtEvdnNgYwsqqFWDwIygKKS6aM4c9aQkjf7BeAdSVPZwnT+afEwtsnQSQ5Ymz441dMYTmO MbfixXGDSnO+17XYYXrR5R+pVFch9ICOntkrVtQH0dHfYVvqsYVOKsxlhAAOsvBoDsXLrwv+E eu5i8Ss X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Emacs developers <emacs-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Ted, > MA> Well, I've stolen the "class" name from directory-local variables. The > MA> concept of connection-local variables is closed to that of directory-local. > > MA> No problem to rename it, if it helps. And sometimes I'm even not sure > MA> whether we need the class/profile concept; it might be even sufficient > MA> to bind variables to connections directly, like variables can be bound > MA> directly to buffers. > > I think from the user's side, it's necessary. We have to associate the > data with a profile, which is then exposed as a configurable entity. > > Let's call them "connection profiles" to be very clear, since just > "profile" can be ambiguous as well. OK, I'll change next time I'll touch the code. > MA> Well, currently a class is bound to a connection via a regexp, which is > MA> used for checking the result of `file-remote-p'. This is good for Tramp, > MA> but it is less good for url-* functionality unless `url-handler-mode' is > MA> enabled, and it does not work for other applications like imap-based > MA> connections. > > MA> Your proposal looks OK to me. U, Y and Z shall be regexps, X a symbol > MA> (or also a regexp?). All of them shall be optional. > > Wonderful. I propose that the application should be a defgroup symbol, > and every connection profile should be required to have a defgroup. > > That would give us an implicit connection profile hierarchy and a place > to hook connection profile customizations at the UI level. > > So defining connection profiles would be something like this: > > (add-connection-profiles :user U :defgroup X :protocol Y :machine Z > :profile 'UXYZ :vars '(...)) > > (add-connection-profiles :profile 'general :vars '(...)) Well, I'm a little bit lost. What does the defgroup here? I understand that replaces what you have called initially an application, but I don't see what defcustoms shall be placed now under the defgroup hierarchy. Could you pls give an example? I also know that there are users reluctant to the customization machinery. Wouldn't we loose them? > Thanks > Ted Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Connection specific settings and proxies
Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos
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(Michael Albinus's message of "Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:37:52 +0100")
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:37:52 +0100 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> wrote:
MA> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> writes:
MA> Hi Ted,
>> The way Michael set it up, you have connection profiles ("classes") that
>> can be associated with any variables. (For passers-by, see
>> `connection-local-set-class-variables', `connection-local-set-classes',
>> and `with-connection-local-classes'). Profiles can be overlaid to
>> augment each other.
>>
>> (Michael: maybe it's not too late to change "class" to "profile"
>> because the former is so overloaded in our field?)
MA> Well, I've stolen the "class" name from directory-local variables. The
MA> concept of connection-local variables is closed to that of directory-local.
MA> No problem to rename it, if it helps. And sometimes I'm even not sure
MA> whether we need the class/profile concept; it might be even sufficient
MA> to bind variables to connections directly, like variables can be bound
MA> directly to buffers.
I think from the user's side, it's necessary. We have to associate the
data with a profile, which is then exposed as a configurable entity.
Let's call them "connection profiles" to be very clear, since just
"profile" can be ambiguous as well.
>> I see. I think the classes should be associated with applications and
>> protocols and login names, not just connections. Michael, what do you
>> think? That would require changing the identification parameter to
>> `connection-local-get-classes' to be an alist or a plist like
>> :user U :application X :protocol Y :machine Z
MA> Well, currently a class is bound to a connection via a regexp, which is
MA> used for checking the result of `file-remote-p'. This is good for Tramp,
MA> but it is less good for url-* functionality unless `url-handler-mode' is
MA> enabled, and it does not work for other applications like imap-based
MA> connections.
MA> Your proposal looks OK to me. U, Y and Z shall be regexps, X a symbol
MA> (or also a regexp?). All of them shall be optional.
Wonderful. I propose that the application should be a defgroup symbol,
and every connection profile should be required to have a defgroup.
That would give us an implicit connection profile hierarchy and a place
to hook connection profile customizations at the UI level.
So defining connection profiles would be something like this:
(add-connection-profiles :user U :defgroup X :protocol Y :machine Z
:profile 'UXYZ :vars '(...))
(add-connection-profiles :profile 'general :vars '(...))
And then the application Gnus would do (note it's required that the
defgroup 'gnus exists):
(connection-profile-get-local-variables :defgroup 'gnus ...other criteria...)
From the user's side, they would say
M-x customize-connection-profile UXYZ ; change criteria or settings
M-x customize-connection-profile general ; change criteria or settings
M-x create-connection-profile atwork ; specify desired settings
M-x connection-profiles ; some kind of table/list UI
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Ted
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Connection specific settings and proxies
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Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:37:52 +0100
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Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Ted,
> The way Michael set it up, you have connection profiles ("classes") that
> can be associated with any variables. (For passers-by, see
> `connection-local-set-class-variables', `connection-local-set-classes',
> and `with-connection-local-classes'). Profiles can be overlaid to
> augment each other.
>
> (Michael: maybe it's not too late to change "class" to "profile"
> because the former is so overloaded in our field?)
Well, I've stolen the "class" name from directory-local variables. The
concept of connection-local variables is closed to that of directory-local.
No problem to rename it, if it helps. And sometimes I'm even not sure
whether we need the class/profile concept; it might be even sufficient
to bind variables to connections directly, like variables can be bound
directly to buffers.
> LI> And, like I said, I don't know whether it's the right design choice to
> LI> have these settings be global, or whether they should be passed in
> LI> explicitly from each application. Would users want to use one set of
> LI> proxies while reading HTML news from Gnus and another when reading from
> LI> eww? Perhaps? Perhaps not?
>
> I see. I think the classes should be associated with applications and
> protocols and login names, not just connections. Michael, what do you
> think? That would require changing the identification parameter to
> `connection-local-get-classes' to be an alist or a plist like
> :user U :application X :protocol Y :machine Z
Well, currently a class is bound to a connection via a regexp, which is
used for checking the result of `file-remote-p'. This is good for Tramp,
but it is less good for url-* functionality unless `url-handler-mode' is
enabled, and it does not work for other applications like imap-based
connections.
Your proposal looks OK to me. U, Y and Z shall be regexps, X a symbol
(or also a regexp?). All of them shall be optional.
> Ted
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2017 23:59:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 02 18:59:08 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54309 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cZRHN-0002Av-00 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:59:08 -0500 Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com ([209.85.218.48]:35647) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <danieldmcclanahan@HIDDEN>) id 1cZRHI-0002AO-Ck for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:59:04 -0500 Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id j15so2282896oih.2 for <16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:59:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v6etIGUIIxDKTstuLS2m0OxswM0rwLtIQ5HBc4oabeU=; b=db0LH+9EyClCPjqqiS56MUNw8rh+iTbH17ZB5WJGUHdro/zqpxr+y7DNeRHhqR8Flm 0sy29GzB7DOhYzYYo+L/a4gLnPxgPP6gqGw0/J5IegpViKSDa6VOTH+47J4Z/gTRskcH Eli+eR4qXl4fbrRtdGK0Z6gG/agQimLjqQXLMdmZCG9+uc/E+c+k8VP9+AefLN/+R6AT Fbksucxm+ABCBK8eFJ/QW45I+QMaGaCV/807Fthn25cz+VFBPUxdQxUV4FFZO/FHyHpJ oMbRhSNnvKUedD4+TflCZRurHrt7aB6uA5DNc84UAX8skl2i1T8bymjzebICt9HiuXGj lKEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v6etIGUIIxDKTstuLS2m0OxswM0rwLtIQ5HBc4oabeU=; b=fokhI1uPJJ8RfAU4+PrJxAIUux26uQbfYgsEcQvQnLZDoUoZIujOOWhQGNZ1jV1GTH m7i5F9fJqzeCKqzY5v5zzkbkg4Z7ixiEjNVvmnWX+xyvMIIL6YlUfkDxsRn7mZaaxktB g0MuEkYUS663mfAvzaxyOpZtBoj+EVKRsGlpqhtWAsWMOd3/9lJYx5tnstlB4PNtJ9DE NIoOlAkd69M18uaSjFkxT13HqNnxtJXRWeDRRcQ2OUNNUgfh219CM8ZLZWbe8Xn5qrw9 v0kRbRd0hAQKjWr37SlZD+5D3zL/VgImik9OGn/KkrSjXfz3neiVhQ7rRHzOaiMqHNV1 KyAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJUh7isOTG/n1hoAARdIc2vKm40qgCfYpeVaPYCWiBLWnegpyiMRpgYY594RSsL0WymFIwH9Ov3ibyRqA== X-Received: by 10.202.80.77 with SMTP id e74mr5954483oib.156.1486079934733; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:58:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.23.239 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <m3efzhmf5d.fsf_-_@stories> References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> <877f5j2i67.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvziif80c1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87a8a8paru.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8tpsi3ah.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87r33jnvn1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h94fqjq7.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3efzhmf5d.fsf_-_@stories> From: Daniel McClanahan <danieldmcclanahan@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:58:34 -0600 Message-ID: <CALuGEhKx0d0Yr8j7ZUGWZbZDO55U4-LtEJoYWyg6Y9ZSbd04fg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Connection specific settings and proxies To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Emacs developers <emacs-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> wrote: > And, like I said, I don't know whether it's the right design choice to have > these settings be global, or whether they should be passed in explicitly from > each application. Would users want to use one set of proxies while reading > HTML news from Gnus and another when reading from eww? Perhaps? Perhaps not? I'm no expert, but I've often been frustrated by configuration options that aren't exposed as defcustoms. I think a defcustom of an alist mapping the match domain to a list/plist of proxy settings would work. If `open-network-stream' only accepts proxy settings as an argument and Gnus/eww/etc wants to allow user-specified proxies, it seems each would have to implement its own defcustom (or some other method) to handle that anyway; configuring these for each package seems annoying. Callers can use a let binding if they want to override it, which is about as easy as an argument. A single global value would make it difficult to have different settings for different callers. One potential solution is to have an optional "tag" symbol as part of the proxy settings, which would only use the proxy if the caller specified the same tag, maybe as a buffer-local variable. So Gnus could set the tag to 'gnus or something in its mode, and a user could add a proxy entry with the 'gnus tag. This might be confusing, though. I don't use proxies too extensively, but something like that would have removed the need for some hacky defadvice I used to configure my ssh connections on a corporate network last summer. Just a thought.
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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Connection specific settings and proxies
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On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 04:43:10 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> wrote:
LI> I'm also not sure what level to put the proxies on: Should they be
LI> passed in from the application (i.e., eww, Gnus, etc) or should it be a
LI> global Emacs setting?
LI> If the latter, you could see having a call like
LI> (set-proxy :match-domain ".*\\.foo\\.bar\\'"
LI> :target-port 443
LI> :proxy-server "localhost"
LI> :proxy-port 80
LI> :method 'connect)
LI> to set up the proxy. (Well, really, you'd have a mode that would allow
LI> you to tweak the global proxy setup.)
The way Michael set it up, you have connection profiles ("classes") that
can be associated with any variables. (For passers-by, see
`connection-local-set-class-variables', `connection-local-set-classes',
and `with-connection-local-classes'). Profiles can be overlaid to
augment each other.
(Michael: maybe it's not too late to change "class" to "profile"
because the former is so overloaded in our field?)
LI> And, like I said, I don't know whether it's the right design choice to
LI> have these settings be global, or whether they should be passed in
LI> explicitly from each application. Would users want to use one set of
LI> proxies while reading HTML news from Gnus and another when reading from
LI> eww? Perhaps? Perhaps not?
I see. I think the classes should be associated with applications and
protocols and login names, not just connections. Michael, what do you
think? That would require changing the identification parameter to
`connection-local-get-classes' to be an alist or a plist like
:user U :application X :protocol Y :machine Z
I can imagine more criteria in the future, so the identification should
be flexible. This has a pretty big semantic overlap with how auth-source
selects credentials and NSM applies security polity, so I think it makes
sense to absorb those things into the same hierarchy. So IMO this is a
chance to consolidate a lot of disparate code and improve the user
experience.
Then you could have:
"class C1(contains the proxy P1) for IMAP to machines A B C"
"class C2(contains the proxy P2) for everything"
"class C3(contains the proxy P3) for machines B C D"
So IMAP to machine B would get C1/P1, but HTTP to machine B would get
C3/P3 (all the matching classes should be applied in specificity order
so the most specific one wins).
Not all parameters apply everywhere, so we're looking to extract the
truly global ones first: network timeout, proxies, NSM policy, GnuTLS
parameters, auth-source entries.
Ted
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Connection specific settings and proxies
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Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 04:43:10 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87h94fqjq7.fsf@HIDDEN> (Michael Albinus's message of "Tue, 31
Jan 2017 17:26:08 +0100")
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Cc: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>, 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,
Emacs developers <emacs-devel@HIDDEN>
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:
>> It's easy to create an ad-hoc system just for network timeout
>> parameters, like I did with many GnuTLS parameters early on, but the
>> systematic approach Michael gave us is much better. The only reason I
>> haven't implemented it is lack of time.
>
> If I could help, just ping me. Not that I have too much free time, but
> I'm interested in this.
I was just pondering something that's perhaps related: HTTP proxying in
the with-url branch.
url.el uses an alist on the form ((("http" . "foo.bar:port")
"proxy:port")) or something to determine what connections should be
proxied. It doesn't support HTTPS proxies (i.e., "CONNECT"), so it's
rather underspecified, if I read the code correctly.
I'm also not sure what level to put the proxies on: Should they be
passed in from the application (i.e., eww, Gnus, etc) or should it be a
global Emacs setting?
If the latter, you could see having a call like
(set-proxy :match-domain ".*\\.foo\\.bar\\'"
:target-port 443
:proxy-server "localhost"
:proxy-port 80
:method 'connect)
to set up the proxy. (Well, really, you'd have a mode that would allow
you to tweak the global proxy setup.)
Now, this all kinda ties in with what Ted was talking about: A
per-connection setting thing. So you could envision doing just the same
with, say, IMAP, if you need to have that be proxied or something, and
then it turns out that the right layer for this stuff is probably in
`open-network-stream': Almost all networking already goes through that
function, so by implementing it there, all clients get automatic proxy
support.
The same mechanism for determining things like lifecycle settings (i.e.,
network timeout parameters) could somehow be squeezed in here.
But I've read the doc for connection-local-set-class-variables, and I
don't quite see how to match up these needs with that mechanism...
And, like I said, I don't know whether it's the right design choice to
have these settings be global, or whether they should be passed in
explicitly from each application. Would users want to use one set of
proxies while reading HTML news from Gnus and another when reading from
eww? Perhaps? Perhaps not?
So many options...
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2017 16:26:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 31 11:26:30 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52405 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cYbGI-0007OJ-MJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:26:30 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:58894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1cYbGG-0007O5-Mw for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:26:29 -0500 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([93.197.218.95]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lkzph-1c0e182wB3-00ampa; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:26:11 +0100 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> <877f5j2i67.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvziif80c1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87a8a8paru.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8tpsi3ah.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <87r33jnvn1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:26:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87r33jnvn1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:37:06 -0500") Message-ID: <87h94fqjq7.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Rn7QGqDqnwRON6wO7HKPhqU9aOwUlzPcJPu+3cGy4Ajkp3UEcWI htQ91kTPEez7OKz6ifZWcWBJj3dOmXyPqWgp1vYytImYurorQQzfewRYb6Big33XcKAF70q YC1rT5oCJe/Hs/BRtUxP0JoVGXwdTays8j3ZccngwcEvn6DZne14aKQpLDGkdCNCHY2hpW2 4vqvAHiUAXla7aGcA5jZQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:yb8YwGKnu+s=:qUdSgzEB/pgbCInLalsC+L EbFAbGoXi9xhbnxdTKTmBRWTkg4KlxyrMhhoTJ08YAiNWt4oLSZtTo0xU6AA7TfdKaJszvSb6 YJEEzf1p7S4S6Uhf/Hx5Al9RXBUxtfzLfxAd+ViYtO70UdDpMktramEZ3N41WmJRfghtOFmN+ rEovnvIVC4V6bZ0YViw7iv2lVWpwcqfIewnOfjwOEL/MjToEMWZqnIm511nPoHF8Il4FkboCA W8BOtdjjkB110AlnOTFXtLEExvwvC9UOn3Tqfay+smrt+Rs6PujDaEfe8f7+9j/EPBX1Ugp4/ M9NHw0ZVDQXfTar6UsNtxc/OpbZJVzOW8bC1VuhsOLJqYPJbshC3FeXZAz3M2pPN3bigc81Pi CvhhxXy5JFHVj9NEct/dutYxNsLV9mKHGbm8h+wSlmC2AOTDFud/R98kVAfiIOq2eB1WzJuwk Wlq8grS4D9irYNQGFhqj4aYkxzPqeQv72B1mjz/na/BxhFoYb+MuuvpQg2hlsxT9PJHU4TD9T /wN65oGhk+KzmcT2A0tF6JblNxSvgSfVZ8WU9buQVz/MiRn1ulWAWpALzpxxYYpEwL4qqtZpM WVdde+gIDQHuJDXFXtLKv0XkUAXIT/qBcIjIlHw6NLouQHLprMKVEnYQNgvNqZBSCBqxGlUom /jfPo67Jl8BSusNUGbHMO7hH3whcwsjaW1uav7/DLEZCXNjil95/TOijtIyVWSzH+hxmfu1tt JktBYWbOUtnO8acqEcgeouNIRVjVZyjkbHgIQI3Cgl/az077h2xbdUHI0SQoHqJoOiQO4fBUs ODqu+eRzBkr2rVO0I7wWNSPMbog492+8KX7tLVOyamvz6JSrgY+giGMqMFMm3h4djRatZujkD KpLJ5VQnH4Cs9U5Chf/ZKg1aHp6FiMUEHLL7YhY787DBESvbMZ9JZc7L0f0DTuMEDZIBXKy4h rwCFpxg/iMQKQx5dZWXJX3as1bzAnYjcnBdX3PY4HQb3cOR4lNwWHi6JxKGhgTmldve+uPR1a Q+QhhdxifFtg909Lm/JN0Gw= X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Ted, > It's easy to create an ad-hoc system just for network timeout > parameters, like I did with many GnuTLS parameters early on, but the > systematic approach Michael gave us is much better. The only reason I > haven't implemented it is lack of time. If I could help, just ping me. Not that I have too much free time, but I'm interested in this. > Ted Best regards, Michael.
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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
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In-Reply-To: <jwv8tpsi3ah.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:38:22 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> I would make it a per-connection setting using the scheme that Michael
>> Albinus has implemented. Then it can be set per host etc.
SM> Not sure if it's worth the trouble, but as long as I can easily set it
SM> globally, that's fine by me.
SM> PS: For me, the need is global because it is mostly caused by NAT
SM> translation, which hence affects the connections to basically all hosts,
SM> except for the very few which are on the same side of the firewall as
SM> I am.
Yes, that's a common situation. Another is home vs. work connections with
different profiles.
It's easy to create an ad-hoc system just for network timeout
parameters, like I did with many GnuTLS parameters early on, but the
systematic approach Michael gave us is much better. The only reason I
haven't implemented it is lack of time.
Ted
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> I would make it a per-connection setting using the scheme that Michael
> Albinus has implemented. Then it can be set per host etc.
Not sure if it's worth the trouble, but as long as I can easily set it
globally, that's fine by me.
Stefan
PS: For me, the need is global because it is mostly caused by NAT
translation, which hence affects the connections to basically all hosts,
except for the very few which are on the same side of the firewall as
I am.
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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
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In-Reply-To: <jwvziif80c1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's
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On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:26:04 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> There is `nntp-connection-timeout', and nnimap could have something
>> similar, I guess.
>> The difficulty is in determining what a good timeout should be. If you
>> send an EXPUNGE to an IMAP server, it may legitimately take many
>> seconds, and you get no output from the server while it's doing this.
>> If you kill the connection and reissue the commands, you then get error
>> messages, I think?
SM> I think in my case a timeout of 30min would cover the main cases already
SM> (i.e. the machine was suspended for more than 30min).
I would make it a per-connection setting using the scheme that Michael
Albinus has implemented. Then it can be set per host etc.
Ted
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
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> There is `nntp-connection-timeout', and nnimap could have something
> similar, I guess.
> The difficulty is in determining what a good timeout should be. If you
> send an EXPUNGE to an IMAP server, it may legitimately take many
> seconds, and you get no output from the server while it's doing this.
> If you kill the connection and reissue the commands, you then get error
> messages, I think?
I think in my case a timeout of 30min would cover the main cases already
(i.e. the machine was suspended for more than 30min).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
Full text available.Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2017 16:56:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 25 11:56:40 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43049 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cWQsC-0007dc-CF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:56:40 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:41496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1cWQs9-0007dS-Fy for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:56:38 -0500 Received: from 2.150.50.220.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.150.50.220] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1cWQs5-0006ur-N8; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:56:36 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections In-Reply-To: <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Wed, 04 Dec 2013 11:04:52 -0500") Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:55:28 +0100 Message-ID: <877f5j2i67.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> <871u1s38m3.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: Sebastien Vauban <sva-news@HIDDEN>, 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN> writes: > On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:12:20 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> wrote: > >>>> Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more >>>> than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when >>>> I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer, >>>> it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait, >>>> like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back >>>> to *Group* and then hit `g'. [...] > In the Gnus mailing list we discussed an easy solution (just close all > server connections before `g') but providing that as a user-level > defcustom feels like giving up. See http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80262/focus=83843 > > I suggested waiting for Lars' opinion. There is `nntp-connection-timeout', and nnimap could have something similar, I guess. The difficulty is in determining what a good timeout should be. If you send an EXPUNGE to an IMAP server, it may legitimately take many seconds, and you get no output from the server while it's doing this. If you kill the connection and reissue the commands, you then get error messages, I think? But issuing EXPUNGE as the first thing after you haven't used a connection in a while is unusual. What usually happens is that you enter an IMAP group, read a few messages, then your ISP decides that you should change your IP number, and then you hit `q' which will normally issue a marks updating command. That should normally give a response within a reasonable time. If a command like that takes more than a few seconds, then we should probably reconnect... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
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From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
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On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:12:20 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>> Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more
>>> than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when
>>> I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer,
>>> it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait,
>>> like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back
>>> to *Group* and then hit `g'.
>> Weird. I do the same as you, or almost [1], and don't have that problem.
SM> Of course, the occurrence of my particular problem depends on various
SM> factors, such as whether you get the same IP address when you wake up,
SM> whether you're in the same network when you wake up, whether you're
SM> behind a NAT, how long the NAT router remembers connections, whether the
SM> NAT router's own IP has changed, ...
In the Gnus mailing list we discussed an easy solution (just close all
server connections before `g') but providing that as a user-level
defcustom feels like giving up. See http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80262/focus=83843
I suggested waiting for Lars' opinion.
Ted
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs,gnus.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
Message-ID: <jwvfvqb1bhb.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
<86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:12:20 -0500
In-Reply-To: <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> (Sebastien Vauban's message of
"Mon, 02 Dec 2013 16:19:25 +0100")
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>> Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more
>> than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when
>> I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer,
>> it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait,
>> like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back
>> to *Group* and then hit `g'.
> Weird. I do the same as you, or almost [1], and don't have that problem.
Of course, the occurrence of my particular problem depends on various
factors, such as whether you get the same IP address when you wake up,
whether you're in the same network when you wake up, whether you're
behind a NAT, how long the NAT router remembers connections, whether the
NAT router's own IP has changed, ...
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Dec 2013 15:53:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 02 10:53:29 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54814 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VnVoO-0002yC-TG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:53:29 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f46.google.com ([209.85.160.46]:61924) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <sdl.web@HIDDEN>) id 1VnVoM-0002xz-Pq for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:53:27 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f46.google.com with SMTP id md12so19237522pbc.19 for <16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 07:53:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:face:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=SO45EQ06+9lTtINEaDABThQ24gtFCYotcLOdv9vnZbM=; b=fC72qMuQBBtO45AtksFi83mElu8tn3zXGszRkU0iZEqMT1hO1FAicPK0Cv9j6ravvQ W+KDzGTD4rnlmmWy4cCV9A4ZJ1ELSq9UT/8GjEcroYPSMBN7L4a23Dw9AXipOweNMgLr qOnfFXfIdUq2/XqSJcVg6XgOJbprLdpKXeFFSXvOY/vWdfPdnZfafSVuCaDh4WG3/dea 3XrhCnJ9bDy6S5jnLttZ3xaG0WyaDdpeL4zqKerz3CEOibyO0jmIp0DbH2D06yP+nHrQ q9px8vTDA5Naj2rjulSVLyDbiuo/1jgVEcqjHrelwABqQDD7wuR9qNTCwZ9K4Y7claVO HrPQ== X-Received: by 10.68.222.225 with SMTP id qp1mr32440659pbc.41.1385999600495; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 07:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zeuss-MacBook.local ([123.119.93.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id xn12sm90412998pac.12.2013.12.02.07.53.16 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Dec 2013 07:53:18 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Liu <sdl.web@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections References: <jwvob4z2tcs.fsf-monnier+@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAGFBMVEUzRVhbQj4eZqO6SjnT eWpxnMetm5b6/PmidmqrAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1F B9cBBwMLBfKABCMAAAFoSURBVCjPtZI9a8MwEIaFoc7aYDdelQMna0Em3tsSr0XUeE2Q6a22a+v+ fk8fSSBkbDUI6dHpfe9OEvRgiD+ApqKPJgJeB6iUUXWESjUe/ig38AJrhqqvaU2nTIXbNvOQ40fe qdry4kyGoVWsfCQalXpHnJGM01wjWdYbMlXNFdsZDO69m9aqNqxEJqTEgbM5OF7wlEfIoll1Ked4 LbM5X2EdILLokEdmI8z7g5cKED0cuTC930TYhy7ZDekkXVGw/L60TguJePPxcJF48lpsSUWEA/Ju jGFNgJOXc4Hz7TmAdBeu5Ve4AEjOi2/2jfd3cAJZ+IbNrvdjgBZY01b+HTuG3cLws6BJZqVOj/pp T0OqVwx3rFq+QmJwx3loK5JSLEhDIt62+mtC2C+SrAUxEbV6C6v2BRbd6pILBKFpepKZJHgGgrKF sptSUUoczpwg2pQ7ZH1tgs0ou/917mzz6Cs2//C978cv5l07L02orIEAAAAASUVORK5CYII= Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 23:53:08 +0800 In-Reply-To: <jwvob4z2tcs.fsf-monnier+@gnu.org> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:03:44 -0500") Message-ID: <m14n6rl063.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (OS X 10.9) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 2013-12-02 23:03 +0800, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more > than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when > I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer, > it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait, > like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back > to *Group* and then hit `g'. This also bugs me everyday (I am mostly using Emacs 24.3). Leo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 16026) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Dec 2013 15:20:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 02 10:20:12 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54793 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VnVIB-000264-Pe for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:20:12 -0500 Received: from dd5e0353a.access.telenet.be ([213.224.53.58]:39831 helo=mail.missioncriticalit.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <sva-news@HIDDEN>) id 1VnVI9-00025q-2D for 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:20:09 -0500 Received: from MUNDANEUM.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me (unknown [10.10.4.62]) by mail.missioncriticalit.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E261C500747; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 16:22:39 +0100 (CET) From: "Sebastien Vauban" <sva-news@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#16026: Gnus shouldn't use old connections Organization: Sebastien Vauban References: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> X-Url: Under construction... X-Archive: encrypt Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 16:19:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <mailman.7856.1385996719.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:03:44 -0500") Message-ID: <86wqjnwa9u.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 16026 Cc: 16026 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) Stefan Monnier wrote: > Package: Emacs > Version: 24.3.50 > > Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more > than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when > I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer, > it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait, > like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back > to *Group* and then hit `g'. Weird. I do the same as you, or almost [1], and don't have that problem. Best regards, Seb [1] When I'm closing the lid, the computer is put to "sleep" (not "hibernate"). And, every night, I switch the mains off for the computer room. -- Sebastien Vauban
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Gnus shouldn't use old connections
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Package: Emacs
Version: 24.3.50
Gnus should consider a connection as dead if it has been idle for more
than some timeout value (e.g. 5 minutes). This bites me every day when
I wake up my computer: if I just hit `g' to refresh the *Group* buffer,
it *always* hangs (I guess it would timeout but only after a long wait,
like 2h). Instead, I have to go to *Server*, close each server, go back
to *Group* and then hit `g'.
Stefan
In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.22)
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Bzr revision: monnier@HIDDEN
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Load-path shadows:
/home/monnier/src/emacs/elpa/packages/company/.dir-locals hides /home/monnier/src/emacs/elpa/packages/js2-mode/.dir-locals
/home/monnier/src/emacs/elpa/packages/company/.dir-locals hides /home/monnier/src/emacs/work/lisp/gnus/.dir-locals
Features:
(shadow emacsbug smerge-mode iso-transl vc-sccs vc-svn vc-cvs vc-rcs vc
vc-dispatcher vc-bzr rect nndoc shell pcomplete comint ring url-http
url-gw url-auth url-queue woman tutorial man info-look help-macro
help-at-pt ehelp apropos canlock pp debug footnote cus-edit cus-start
cus-load dabbrev diff-mode jka-compr gnus-fun supercite regi nnir
shr-color color shr gnus-dup misearch multi-isearch nnagent nnml
executable copyright flow-fill mm-archive gnus-html browse-url xml
url-cache mm-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods
url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util mule-util sort smiley
ansi-color gnus-cite mail-extr gnus-bcklg gnus-async qp gnus-ml nnfolder
utf-7 nndraft nnmh rfc2104 gnutls network-stream starttls nnimap
parse-time tls utf7 netrc nnnil gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score
score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 epg-config mm-view
mml-smime smime dig mailcap nntp gnus-cache gnus-sum nnoo gnus-group
gnus-undo nnmail mail-source server gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int
gnus-range message sendmail format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win gnus gnus-ems nnheader
mail-utils wid-edit noutline outline easy-mmode flyspell ispell eldoc
checkdoc thingatpt help-mode advice help-fns electric url-handlers
url-parse auth-source eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv
eieio-core gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache url-vars reveal
autoinsert proof-site proof-autoloads cl-macs gv cl pg-vars uniquify
time-date savehist minibuf-eldef disp-table finder-inf edmacro kmacro
cl-loaddefs cl-lib info easymenu package bbdb-autoloads agda2
vm-autoloads tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win
x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list
newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core frame cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process
dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)
Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#16026; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.