Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jun 2016 10:33:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 26 06:33:55 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56098 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bH7Nz-00013E-Lb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jun 2016 06:33:55 -0400 Received: from river.fysh.org ([87.98.248.19]:36101 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1bH7Nx-000135-RB for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jun 2016 06:33:54 -0400 Received: from zefram by river.fysh.org with local (Exim 4.84_2 #1 (Debian)) id 1bH7Nt-0006ec-Vt; Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:33:49 +0100 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:33:49 +0100 From: Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> To: Mark H Weaver <mhw@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale Message-ID: <20160626103349.GK1170@HIDDEN> References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> <87eg7njfhk.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wplcpxev.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87wplcpxev.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822 Cc: Andy Wingo <wingo@HIDDEN>, 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, ludo@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) Mark H Weaver wrote: > by convention they are >supposed to encoded in the locale encoding. This convention is bunk. The encoding aspect of the locale system is fundamentally broken: the model is that every string in the universe (every file content, filename, command line argument, etc.) is encoded in the same way, and the locale environment variable tells you which universe you're in. But in the real universe, files, filenames, and so on turn up encoded how their authors liked to encode them, and that's not always the same. In the real universe we have to cope with data that is not encoded in our preferred way. > If that convention is >violated, I don't see what a program could do about it. If the convention is violated, then there is some difficulty in presenting correctly-encoded (or even consistently-encoded) output to the user, but it is not insuperable. Perhaps the program knows by some non-locale means how a string is encoded, and can explicitly convert. Perhaps it doesn't know the real encoding, but can trust that the user will understand the octet string if it is passed through with neither decoding of input nor encoding for output. Or perhaps the program doesn't need to put the string into textual output at all, but only to use it some API or file format that's expecting an encodingless octet string. So there are many things a program can reasonably do about it, and which one to do depends on the application. >Can someone show me a realistic example of how this would be used in >practice? Looking specifically at environment variables: an environment variable could give the name of a file that is to be consulted under specified circumstances, and the right file may happen to have a name that is inconsistent with the encoding used by the user's terminal. (The filename is not required for output; it only needs to be passed as an uninterpreted octet string to the open(2) syscall.) An environment variable could specify a Unicode-using name of a language module to be loaded, while the user doesn't otherwise use Unicode, or doesn't use an encoding encompassing enough of it. (Name not required on output, again; will be either transformed into a filename or looked up in a file format that specifies its own encoding.) The program could be env(1), not interpreting the environment but needing to output the octets correctly. The program could be saving an uninterpreted environment, for a cron job to later run some other program with equivalent settings. -zefram
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.
Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jun 2016 01:11:07 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 25 21:11:07 2016
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1bGybL-0002I4-LT
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:11:07 -0400
Received: from world.peace.net ([50.252.239.5]:58669)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <mhw@HIDDEN>) id 1bGybK-0002HZ-Ai
for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:11:06 -0400
Received: from pool-71-174-35-80.bstnma.east.verizon.net ([71.174.35.80]
helo=jojen)
by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
(Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mhw@HIDDEN>)
id 1bGybD-0001Ko-RP; Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:10:59 -0400
From: Mark H Weaver <mhw@HIDDEN>
To: Andy Wingo <wingo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale
References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> <87eg7njfhk.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:10:48 -0400
In-Reply-To: <87eg7njfhk.fsf@HIDDEN> (Andy Wingo's message of "Fri, 24 Jun
2016 07:57:43 +0200")
Message-ID: <87wplcpxev.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822
Cc: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN>, ludo@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
Andy Wingo <wingo@HIDDEN> writes:
> On Tue 16 Jun 2015 06:17, Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> When guile-2.0 is asked to read environment variables, via getenv,
>> it always decodes the underlying octet string according to the current
>> locale's nominal character encoding. This is a problem, because the
>> environment variable's value is not necessarily encoded that way, and
>> may not even be an encoding of a character string at all. The decoding
>> is lossy, where the octet string isn't consistent with the character
>> encoding, so the original octet string cannot be recovered from the
>> mangled form. I don't see any Scheme interface that retrieves the
>> environment without locale decoding.
>
> Options:
>
> Add optional "encoding" arg to scm_getenv; encoding is a string
>
> Add alternate getenv interface that returns a bytevector
>
> We'll have to do the same for setenv too, I think.
>
> I think I would go with adding an encoding argument to getenv. WDYT
> Mark and Ludovic?
I just don't see how this could be used sanely in actual practice.
These things are conceptually strings, and by convention they are
supposed to encoded in the locale encoding. If that convention is
violated, I don't see what a program could do about it.
Can someone show me a realistic example of how this would be used in
practice?
Mark
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2016 05:57:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 24 01:57:56 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bGK7o-0006K9-Mq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:57:56 -0400 Received: from pb-sasl2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.67]:55740 helo=sasl.smtp.pobox.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <wingo@HIDDEN>) id 1bGK7m-0006Jz-0m for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:57:55 -0400 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-sasl2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BFB26B92; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:57:52 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=uAvPY3snXKgih0syRmBkl3nRjqQ=; b=CwaQMz 6ef532+YQJzwzBRAweBGUsReIvR/lqt1eGYviWb4Su8fXRdKNFy6wv0xO7XCFQk1 YnJDSrhHTYYmHXd+AmpoxSr39ihw1ifNrwMS2wUlHf9clA0YcWwjr1uqfRyHOmym ccW1Dp8D3FC4zGh6JCndsp/7Dbevm89miKZ/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b=rm+tyMZzamT4e8W84Y8/u4dh2WnzTBkK sN7Txc6/gVgtAXVF3cJ4x7HTXHbYZHCmqW+yZfaS25L/hlgKFsMw/8La3/OcGtpu +VzKzVc7QBYLNoyit70RgEx1OYcqOxUxdkBK6o/I1lwfSBB6j9cdbPot4/WI30kT YKCffEq/7YY= Received: from pb-sasl2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-sasl2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A07426B91; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clucks (unknown [88.160.190.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-sasl2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E6C426B8F; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Wingo <wingo@HIDDEN> To: Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:57:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> (zefram@HIDDEN's message of "Tue, 16 Jun 2015 05:17:36 +0100") Message-ID: <87eg7njfhk.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 962A85CC-39D0-11E6-899B-28A6F1301B6D-02397024!pb-sasl2.pobox.com X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822 Cc: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, ludo@HIDDEN, mhw@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Tue 16 Jun 2015 06:17, Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> writes: > When guile-2.0 is asked to read environment variables, via getenv, > it always decodes the underlying octet string according to the current > locale's nominal character encoding. This is a problem, because the > environment variable's value is not necessarily encoded that way, and > may not even be an encoding of a character string at all. The decoding > is lossy, where the octet string isn't consistent with the character > encoding, so the original octet string cannot be recovered from the > mangled form. I don't see any Scheme interface that retrieves the > environment without locale decoding. Options: Add optional "encoding" arg to scm_getenv; encoding is a string Add alternate getenv interface that returns a bytevector We'll have to do the same for setenv too, I think. I think I would go with adding an encoding argument to getenv. WDYT Mark and Ludovic? Andy
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2016 23:22:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 04 18:22:36 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34180 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1abz3M-0005Qa-Fj for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 18:22:36 -0500 Received: from river.fysh.org ([87.98.248.19]:53708 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1abz3K-0005QS-Mq for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 18:22:35 -0500 Received: from zefram by river.fysh.org with local (Exim 4.80 #2 (Debian)) id 1abz3G-00042J-N7; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 23:22:30 +0000 Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 23:22:30 +0000 From: Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> To: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale Message-ID: <20160304232230.GA13009@HIDDEN> References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) I wrote: >There's an obvious parallel with reading data from an input port. >If setlocale is called, then input is by default decoded according >to locale, including the very lossy ASCII decode for C/POSIX. But if >setlocale has not been called, then input is by default decoded according >to ISO-8859-1, preserving the actual octets. It would probably be most >sensible that, if setlocale hasn't been called, getenv should likewise >decode according to ISO-8859-1. It might also be sensible to offer >some explicit control over the encoding to be used with the environment, >just as I/O ports have a concept of per-port selected encoding. In the light of what I've learned recently about Guile's locale handling, this needs some revision. What I thought was a well-defined "setlocale not called" state is a mirage. The encoding of ports is not reliably fixed at ISO-8859-1; per bug#22910 it can be affected by ostensibly read-only calls to setlocale, and seems to be only accidentally ISO-8859-1 until that's done. So that's not a good model. Due to the GUILE_INSTALL_LOCALE mechanism, a program wanting no locale selected can't just never call setlocale in write mode. So setlocale not having been called is not really available as a way to control anything. So it would seem to be necessary to use some explicit control of character encoding for environment access. (This must be control of encoding per se, not merely of which locale to use for environment access, because, as I noted in the original report, there's no guarantee of a locale with a suitable encoding.) This could be an optional parameter to the environment access functions, or a settable variable that takes precedence over locale to determine encoding for all environment access. The latter would match the encoding model used by ports. -zefram
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.
Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2015 20:50:25 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 16 16:50:24 2015
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56339 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1Z4xoN-0005tW-Hr
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:50:24 -0400
Received: from de.cellform.com ([88.217.224.109]:55491 helo=jocasta.intra)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
(envelope-from <john@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4xoJ-0005tM-P3
for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:50:22 -0400
Received: from jocasta.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by jocasta.intra (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id t5GKoILv023503
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:50:18 +0200
Received: (from john@localhost)
by jocasta.intra (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id t5GKoH0k023502;
Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:50:17 +0200
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:50:17 +0200
From: John Darrington <john@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Rottmann <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale
Message-ID: <20150616205017.GA23390@HIDDEN>
References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN>
<20150616062631.GA700@HIDDEN>
<874mm7whcr.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <874mm7whcr.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822
Cc: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN>,
John Darrington <john@HIDDEN>
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
--GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 10:03:48PM +0200, Andreas Rottmann wrote:
John Darrington <john@HIDDEN> writes:
=20
> Can we configure this mailing list better?
>
> Many (all?) of the messages posted have no obvious indication of whi=
ch
> mailing list they are coming from.
>
> The subject line is something like "bug#12345: description"
> The To: field is 12354 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> In general, it takes a lot of detective work to discover that message
> relates to guile.
>
No, it doesn't, there's a List-Id header in all messages sent out via
the list:
=20
List-Id: "Bug reports for GUILE, GNU's Ubiquitous Extension Language" =
<bug-guile.gnu.org>
OK Thanks. If that is invariant, then I'll set a rule accordingly. =20
Now that I know, I can do that.
=20
Putting an
identifier into the subject just clutters the view for people who have
set up their email clients appropriatly for use with mailing list.
I don't agree. In fact, I set my email client for use with mailing lists. =
That is why
I made the suggestion. I like to know if I'm receiving personally addresse=
d mail, or
mail via a list (without having to explicitly check the envelope and all he=
aders).
=20
>From the email headers of your post, it seems you use mutt; I don't k=
now
if mutt has built-in support for grouping based on List-Id (I'd guess
no), but you can use a tool (MDA) like "maildrop"[1], "scmail"[2] or
"procmail"[3]" to automatically put the email you receive via mailing
lists into different (e.g.) IMAP mailboxes.
I do know how to use my computer - I just didn't know what field this list
used to identify itself. But thanks for reminding me anyway.
=20
> Can it not be configured to Prepend the Subject: line with Bug-Guile
> or something similar? That way it'd be easier to manage - either
> manually or automatically.
>
As mentioned above, this is not a good idea.
There are a lot of email conventions which are not good ideas. They are ne=
vertheless
ubiquitous, and refusing to conform to them is also not a good idea.
=20
Anyway, I'll set a rule on the List-Id field as you suggested and hopefull=
y that'll
fix the problem.
Sorry for the noise.
J'
--=20
PGP Public key ID: 1024D/2DE827B3=20
fingerprint =3D 8797 A26D 0854 2EAB 0285 A290 8A67 719C 2DE8 27B3
See http://sks-keyservers.net or any PGP keyserver for public key.
--GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlWAjAkACgkQimdxnC3oJ7N0MgCbBLaG64kqxAMeUO4QVA8d/YJo
Vb8AnR1xLfgThm/BA9kXgmzmtHPvfSvd
=vtRu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw--
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2015 20:05:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 16 16:05:50 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56306 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Z4x7E-0004qV-Be for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:05:49 -0400 Received: from yade.xx.vu ([78.47.92.94]:43822 ident=postfix) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <mail@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4x5M-0004nL-Ah for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:03:57 -0400 Received: from delenn.home.rotty.xx.vu (85-127-115-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at [85.127.115.72]) by yade.xx.vu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED7D7230DA4; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:03:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by delenn.home.rotty.xx.vu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 97B813258E5; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:03:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Rottmann <mail@HIDDEN> To: John Darrington <john@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> <20150616062631.GA700@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:03:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20150616062631.GA700@HIDDEN> (John Darrington's message of "Tue, 16 Jun 2015 08:26:32 +0200") Message-ID: <874mm7whcr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:05:46 -0400 Cc: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) John Darrington <john@HIDDEN> writes: > Can we configure this mailing list better? > > Many (all?) of the messages posted have no obvious indication of which > mailing list they are coming from. > > The subject line is something like "bug#12345: description" > The To: field is 12354 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > In general, it takes a lot of detective work to discover that message > relates to guile. > No, it doesn't, there's a List-Id header in all messages sent out via the list: List-Id: "Bug reports for GUILE, GNU's Ubiquitous Extension Language" <bug-guile.gnu.org> You should use an email client (MUA) or mail delivery agent (MDA) which can act on that header, and group all (e.g.) bug-guile mails into their own folder (or view, or however your client calls that). Putting an identifier into the subject just clutters the view for people who have set up their email clients appropriatly for use with mailing list. From the email headers of your post, it seems you use mutt; I don't know if mutt has built-in support for grouping based on List-Id (I'd guess no), but you can use a tool (MDA) like "maildrop"[1], "scmail"[2] or "procmail"[3]" to automatically put the email you receive via mailing lists into different (e.g.) IMAP mailboxes. [1] http://www.courier-mta.org/maildrop/ [2] http://0xcc.net/scmail/index.html.en [3] http://www.procmail.org/ Personally, I use scmail, as I quite like its Scheme-based configuration file format; here's what I've done on a Debian system to set this up (I'm hopefully not forgetting something here): Create a .forward file containing the following single line in your $HOME, to process incoming mail with scmail: | /usr/bin/scmail-deliver Then, follow the instructions on the scmail homepage[1], creating ~/.scmail/config and ~/.scmail/deliver-rules to split your incoming mail into multiple mailboxes; I use the following rules for the Guile lists: (add-filter-rule! '(list-id (#/guile-devel\.gnu\.org/i "lists/guile-devel")) '(list-id (#/guile-user\.gnu\.org/i "lists/guile-user")) '(list-id (#/bug-guile\.gnu\.org/i "lists/guile-bug"))) The exact destinations you can use (e.g. "lists/guile-devel") depends on which program access your mail (IMAP server, local MUA). For a mutt instance running on the same system, my config looks like [4]. Note that this config is not polished at all; I use mutt on the server only as a fallback. [4] http://rotty.xx.vu/git/dotfiles/mutt/tree/.muttrc > Can it not be configured to Prepend the Subject: line with Bug-Guile > or something similar? That way it'd be easier to manage - either > manually or automatically. > As mentioned above, this is not a good idea. Kind regards, Rotty -- Andreas Rottmann -- <http://rotty.xx.vu/>
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.
Received: (at 20822) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2015 06:26:42 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 16 02:26:42 2015
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55170 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1Z4kKX-0004tw-8a
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 02:26:41 -0400
Received: from de.cellform.com ([88.217.224.109]:55470 helo=jocasta.intra)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
(envelope-from <john@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4kKR-0004tj-MU
for 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 02:26:38 -0400
Received: from jocasta.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by jocasta.intra (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id t5G6QW50001212
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
Tue, 16 Jun 2015 08:26:32 +0200
Received: (from john@localhost)
by jocasta.intra (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id t5G6QWeB001210;
Tue, 16 Jun 2015 08:26:32 +0200
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 08:26:32 +0200
From: John Darrington <john@HIDDEN>
To: Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#20822: environment mangled by locale
Message-ID: <20150616062631.GA700@HIDDEN>
References: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 20822
Cc: 20822 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
--HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can we configure this mailing list better?
Many (all?) of the messages posted have no obvious indication of which
mailing list they are coming from.
The subject line is something like "bug#12345: description"
The To: field is 12354 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
In general, it takes a lot of detective work to discover that message relat=
es to guile.
Can it not be configured to Prepend the Subject: line with Bug-Guile or som=
ething similar?
That way it'd be easier to manage - either manually or automatically.
J'
=20
--=20
PGP Public key ID: 1024D/2DE827B3=20
fingerprint =3D 8797 A26D 0854 2EAB 0285 A290 8A67 719C 2DE8 27B3
See http://sks-keyservers.net or any PGP keyserver for public key.
--HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlV/wZcACgkQimdxnC3oJ7OXXwCeP7mrnnsaqaKvyxs7NMAItYyS
2/8An3+syT3wnBicFO1Z6h1VMeH476+m
=iZ3h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD--
bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2015 04:17:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 16 00:17:58 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55109 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Z4iJx-0001mU-ST for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJv-0001mH-UH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJp-0000vg-Px for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54996) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJp-0000vZ-MI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53883) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJo-0004cE-FL for bug-guile@HIDDEN; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJl-0000ui-8i for bug-guile@HIDDEN; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:48 -0400 Received: from river.fysh.org ([5.135.154.127]:60991) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <zefram@HIDDEN>) id 1Z4iJl-0000tK-2r for bug-guile@HIDDEN; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:17:45 -0400 Received: from zefram by river.fysh.org with local (Exim 4.80 #2 (Debian)) id 1Z4iJc-0002F5-VS; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 05:17:37 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 05:17:36 +0100 From: Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN> To: bug-guile@HIDDEN Subject: environment mangled by locale Message-ID: <20150616041736.GA2718@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) When guile-2.0 is asked to read environment variables, via getenv, it always decodes the underlying octet string according to the current locale's nominal character encoding. This is a problem, because the environment variable's value is not necessarily encoded that way, and may not even be an encoding of a character string at all. The decoding is lossy, where the octet string isn't consistent with the character encoding, so the original octet string cannot be recovered from the mangled form. I don't see any Scheme interface that retrieves the environment without locale decoding. The decoding is governed by the currently selected locale at the time that getenv is called, so this can be controlled to some extent by setlocale. However, this doesn't provide a way round the lossy decoding problem, because there is no guarantee of a cooperative locale being available (and especially being available under a predictable name). On my Debian system here, the "POSIX" and "C" locales' nominal character encoding is ASCII, so decoding under these locales results in all high-half octets being turned into question marks. Retrieving environment without calling setlocale at all also yields this lossy ASCII decode. Demos: $ env - FOO=$'L\xc3\xa9on' guile-2.0 -c '(write (map char->integer (string->list (getenv "FOO")))) (newline)' (76 63 63 111 110) $ env - FOO=$'L\xc3\xa9on' guile-2.0 -c '(setlocale LC_ALL "POSIX") (write (map char->integer (string->list (getenv "FOO")))) (newline)' (76 63 63 111 110) $ env - FOO=$'L\xc3\xa9on' guile-2.0 -c '(setlocale LC_ALL "de_DE.utf8") (write (map char->integer (string->list (getenv "FOO")))) (newline)' (76 233 111 110) $ env - FOO=$'L\xc3\xa9on' guile-2.0 -c '(setlocale LC_ALL "de_DE.iso88591") (write (map char->integer (string->list (getenv "FOO")))) (newline)' (76 195 169 111 110) The actual data passed between processes is an octet string, and there really needs to be some reliable way to access that octet string. There's an obvious parallel with reading data from an input port. If setlocale is called, then input is by default decoded according to locale, including the very lossy ASCII decode for C/POSIX. But if setlocale has not been called, then input is by default decoded according to ISO-8859-1, preserving the actual octets. It would probably be most sensible that, if setlocale hasn't been called, getenv should likewise decode according to ISO-8859-1. It might also be sensible to offer some explicit control over the encoding to be used with the environment, just as I/O ports have a concept of per-port selected encoding. The same issue applies to other environment access functions too. For setenv the corresponding problem is the inability to *write* an arbitrary octet string to an environment variable. Obviously all the functions should have mutually consistent behaviour. -zefram
Zefram <zefram@HIDDEN>:bug-guile@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-guile@HIDDEN:bug#20822; Package guile.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.