Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2019 10:13:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 22 06:13:39 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hIVxC-0006L6-TS for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:13:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIVxB-0006Kr-G4 for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:13:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38400) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIVx5-0004Ed-2B; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:13:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3791 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIVx1-0002QD-4e; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:13:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:13:18 +0300 Message-Id: <83wojm73gh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <92c7d2aa-1f2a-4902-af26-e322d4b5d8dd@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:58:41 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <<2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default>> <<83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN>> <<87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN>> <<6be7fe2c-a1ff-4334-8251-86761610a4f4@default>> <<83muki8t8b.fsf@HIDDEN>> <92c7d2aa-1f2a-4902-af26-e322d4b5d8dd@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: michael.albinus@HIDDEN, 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:58:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > Cc: michael.albinus@HIDDEN, 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > If you think that discussing ways to fix the problem for Windows users > > who don't have 'find' and 'grep' does not belong to this bug report, > > then why did you file this bug report? Isn't fixing the problem the > > goal of this report? If not, what is its goal? > > Certainly if you do fix the problem in the way suggested > by Michael then this bug report will also be taken care of. > > But this need not wait to be fixed that way - it need not > wait (how long?) for such a complete solution. If you, or someone else, submit a fix soon, then the problem will be solved soon. I don't know how to fix the problem sooner than a patch for it is available. > We have, essentially, a regression. There are simple ways > to work around it - while waiting for the more complete > solution that Michael suggests. My suggestion is to do one > of those things _until or unless_ the more complete solution > is available. Let's not just leave things broken until then. We don't want to use the workaround you suggested, because it's a step backward. > In any case, I'm happy and grateful to hear that you intend > to fix this correctly. That should have been clear since the first response to your bug report.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:58:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS
Windows users
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> > > > Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on
> > > > Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external progr=
ams
> > > > when they are available).
> > >
> > > Something like ls-lisp? Yes, that would be useful. We shall change th=
e
> > > title of this bug report, or divide it even into two reports, for
> > > find-lisp and grep-lisp.
> >
> > That would be good. But please create separate bug
> > reports for such enhancements. Don't just retitle
> > this thread and change its meaning.
> >
> > This bug thread is about the binding of commands that
> > cannot possibly work out of the box for MS Windows
> > users, where by out-of-the-box I mean without knowing
> > that they need to install some additional software
> > and then installing that.
> >
> > And this thread is about the broken repurposing of
> > bindings that previously worked for such users - and
> > whose previous commands still work for them (and for
> > everyone else).
>=20
> If you think that discussing ways to fix the problem for Windows users
> who don't have 'find' and 'grep' does not belong to this bug report,
> then why did you file this bug report? Isn't fixing the problem the
> goal of this report? If not, what is its goal?
Certainly if you do fix the problem in the way suggested
by Michael then this bug report will also be taken care of.
But this need not wait to be fixed that way - it need not
wait (how long?) for such a complete solution.
We have, essentially, a regression. There are simple ways
to work around it - while waiting for the more complete
solution that Michael suggests. My suggestion is to do one
of those things _until or unless_ the more complete solution
is available. Let's not just leave things broken until then.
IOW, fix this quickly in some less-than-perfect way, to get
things back to "normal" in some sense. That does not prevent
a more satisfactory solution being implemented.
If you prefer to keep all of that in the same bug thread
that's fine by me. But I would like to see a quick fix
in some way. What I don't want to see is nothing happen,
in the vague hope that someday there will be pie in the
sky. If/when there is pie in the sky I'll be happy, of
course.
> > However you look at it, until/unless the enhancement
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > requests that Michael suggests are available this bug
> > needs fixing. MS Windows users have lost something,
> > out of the box, at least.
>=20
> We are discussing how to provide that. What is it that you don't like
> about this discussion?
See above. I have no problem with discussing, as long as
the ideal doesn't become the enemy of the immediately good.
> > As the first line of this thread says, "Shouldn't the
> > default bindings of `A' and `Q' DTRT on MS Windows out
> > of the box?" That's what this bug is about. How the
> > bug gets fixed is another matter.
>=20
> Saying that we should fix it by replacing 'find' and 'grep' in Lisp
> answers that question in my book. By fixing the bug we acknowledge
> that the answer to the question is positive.
Great. And how about a quick workaround fix in the mean
time?
> > If we won't restore `A' and `Q' to what they were before
> > for everyone (and Eli says we won't) then can we not do
> > something else to restore/replace what we broke for
> > Windows users by changing their bindings to commands
> > that they can use? That is, not change `A' and `Q' back
> > for everyone, but do so for those that need a workaround.
>=20
> This is the wrong way of fixing the problem, and therefore we won't do
> it, as I said in my previous message.
I said from the outset that it is not the right fix.
But it is a quick workaround to back out of a regression
for those users affected. When do you expect to have the
right fix implemented.
In any case, I'm happy and grateful to hear that you intend
to fix this correctly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2019 06:11:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 22 02:11:34 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49620 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hISAv-0008Tv-RE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:11:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35142) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hISAt-0008Tj-En for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:11:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35945) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hISAo-0004jd-AY; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:11:26 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4370 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hISAn-0002MF-QQ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:11:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 09:11:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83muki8t8b.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <6be7fe2c-a1ff-4334-8251-86761610a4f4@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:53:04 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> <6be7fe2c-a1ff-4334-8251-86761610a4f4@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: michael.albinus@HIDDEN, 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:53:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > Cc: 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on > > > Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external programs > > > when they are available). > > > > Something like ls-lisp? Yes, that would be useful. We shall change the > > title of this bug report, or divide it even into two reports, for > > find-lisp and grep-lisp. > > That would be good. But please create separate bug > reports for such enhancements. Don't just retitle > this thread and change its meaning. > > This bug thread is about the binding of commands that > cannot possibly work out of the box for MS Windows > users, where by out-of-the-box I mean without knowing > that they need to install some additional software > and then installing that. > > And this thread is about the broken repurposing of > bindings that previously worked for such users - and > whose previous commands still work for them (and for > everyone else). If you think that discussing ways to fix the problem for Windows users who don't have 'find' and 'grep' does not belong to this bug report, then why did you file this bug report? Isn't fixing the problem the goal of this report? If not, what is its goal? > However you look at it, until/unless the enhancement > requests that Michael suggests are available this bug > needs fixing. MS Windows users have lost something, > out of the box, at least. We are discussing how to provide that. What is it that you don't like about this discussion? > As the first line of this thread says, "Shouldn't the > default bindings of `A' and `Q' DTRT on MS Windows out > of the box?" That's what this bug is about. How the > bug gets fixed is another matter. Saying that we should fix it by replacing 'find' and 'grep' in Lisp answers that question in my book. By fixing the bug we acknowledge that the answer to the question is positive. > If we won't restore `A' and `Q' to what they were before > for everyone (and Eli says we won't) then can we not do > something else to restore/replace what we broke for > Windows users by changing their bindings to commands > that they can use? That is, not change `A' and `Q' back > for everyone, but do so for those that need a workaround. This is the wrong way of fixing the problem, and therefore we won't do it, as I said in my previous message.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2019 06:04:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 22 02:04:28 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hIS43-0008Jq-Vv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:04:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34287) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIS41-0008Ja-V1 for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:04:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35903) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIS3w-0000mO-F0; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:04:20 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3934 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIS3t-0002L1-UG; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 02:04:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 09:04:07 +0300 Message-Id: <83o94y8tk8.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Albinus on Sun, 21 Apr 2019 21:25:33 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> > Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 21:25:33 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on > > Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external programs > > when they are available). > > Something like ls-lisp? Yes, that would be useful. We shall change the > title of this bug report, or divide it even into two reports, for > find-lisp and grep-lisp. find-lisp.el already exists, as you know. So I think we need a simple extension of it, or maybe this is already supported, so we need to use it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2019 19:53:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 21 15:53:18 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49107 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hIIWc-0005Un-7B for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:53:18 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:41596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1hIIWa-0005UY-8V for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:53:16 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x3LJoufb020588; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:53:09 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=H7MecyBLBmJBvR1mkICdn8kkIHMpPQOgbrKyh5hn5BU=; b=ei/ssDXXXzDjWaQMBrbnl/Xq0YXDm8/b1bNaz0MVhtzQ/h/wPb/6bfC029jOETPh+0N4 3rrQqNKQy0qao+/PTnzgFFiPpqfsN0ZA3o4lCQ1A3jpilz0wt5w9kszr0+SiQwuAUksn +b0DrSPRn7qHfUgI2k68sueMCznkXGK093/xYtlKB+utaw3TB/xQrKhqqXf5OpXgrJXw QUon7hhuqn9lfABlK3KbMiylWOUFblGlVMGvZnrnCk7b8OCNnTJyLi5K7zlLreX7uVkY AMyRKKne9QBwsaCDK8dPR4YFjxS0nDUOiPb7Tqp7wJGr4F38Fegx0KUnu7tBDehVV9th uw== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ryv2pue01-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:53:09 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x3LJqKg8033226; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:53:09 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2s0f0unhth-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:53:08 +0000 Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3LJr58p015746; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:53:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6be7fe2c-a1ff-4334-8251-86761610a4f4@default> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4834.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9234 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904210156 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9234 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904210156 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on > > Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external programs > > when they are available). >=20 > Something like ls-lisp? Yes, that would be useful. We shall change the > title of this bug report, or divide it even into two reports, for > find-lisp and grep-lisp. That would be good. But please create separate bug reports for such enhancements. Don't just retitle this thread and change its meaning. This bug thread is about the binding of commands that cannot possibly work out of the box for MS Windows users, where by out-of-the-box I mean without knowing that they need to install some additional software and then installing that. And this thread is about the broken repurposing of bindings that previously worked for such users - and whose previous commands still work for them (and for everyone else). However you look at it, until/unless the enhancement requests that Michael suggests are available this bug needs fixing. MS Windows users have lost something, out of the box, at least. As the first line of this thread says, "Shouldn't the default bindings of `A' and `Q' DTRT on MS Windows out of the box?" That's what this bug is about. How the bug gets fixed is another matter. If we won't restore `A' and `Q' to what they were before for everyone (and Eli says we won't) then can we not do something else to restore/replace what we broke for Windows users by changing their bindings to commands that they can use? That is, not change `A' and `Q' back for everyone, but do so for those that need a workaround. As I said at the outset, "Can't Emacs either bind these keys to what they were bound to previously [for Windows users] or test first whether the requisite OS commands are available before binding these keys to Emacs commands that won't be usable for many Windows users?" IOW, if we insist on binding `A' and `Q' generally to commands that cannot be used by such users then can we not at least fall back - for them - to commands that do work? Why make users themselves discover the gotcha individually and work around it?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2019 19:25:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 21 15:25:48 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49090 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hII60-0004pz-Ih for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:25:48 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:41225) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1hII5z-0004pm-85 for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:25:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1555874736; bh=+c9U6MYC4awp/6mKIKhxr9whLWC+ywlYv2UvCMwZDvA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=iqQaMuJWzHPYBTeIGXLzCsF+et1RwiCutzj7KIC5+9Ll4EOI0ueAhs5FDLGPqPnmd lnluXZEhCDItte/1O2SFq14IWVLM0nR3bMb4wtyXBSR0XLvqSksoT4/jQBNybaMCIf DnaYlOXjXvZcl8XZjqs7+HreDnoU8+4PbzVitytA= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([212.86.57.1]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LtmK9-1gqtli3AFp-011DFk; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 21:25:35 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 21:25:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 21 Apr 2019 22:07:21 +0300") Message-ID: <87bm0zcg9e.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:vM7rgQD807BsbPDdM9CMgGcpb9MUAuwvJXCnJuYizUZaE+MT8+x hGTNuGwhe2KbiPn+Nyg7+D2lxW3CbPov+k9cexv+uYPvHEjsqVq7LKbIdoHtajfHAgarFsj CXp8dp7Wr3c4M8vUxlUy1KZ2o2pSsRVQnfFkpfkRdnT53KB4nZnpxw41y8mhnlFkVlYp3Iw Hm2125S+jzQacbl2aBEaw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ekHAq1dCbiY=:BZt8UsUSBgm7TIubGqFtjt qwYrFAA2plTz7u+J25uR+yRI34vnAujMIZhmROQrQyowRW8hxSzjQROBWRvLbc9nysrSX2ZWu CEhv42C9wKSZNGF5/3NuZkfSpY8u/xk4bxSFo3N70fVpTmb1D2D2eiBACO2c/8si7HlVO+KjG tJ2E/EXS66dHdcND03ftE6VCDa5jo7VRXdfWZi0uYortNAxJEXbxLfVL5TNjHbjG94cwiWE7a DZakrnH88G8eXx87drUI4E0bdWWAQ3VI+lzd6Dy09ZUM3jV5tUl3YPLo5bNEk36ZQrqRu87aq XJh3JfBH99odgZL/ZMF/vrK/rt+yV41Uafn/mU3Wlnje51dWZlzna1E07QpUh8aX5wW3a1L0L 74AMzPm38tPz6H7X7NCK3R85nV9JEp4no6iA4nbffcnvWu0otEU7DGRrMZ54Qg72m7STS+lUZ ssQwNscmZxsrBeIhADbNEQoSVsnNjTkWTwWiZB3Yr/xeN6qEyljBddZo47QZT+dsu41fFQOR3 8saRbH9EPKR6Ppnbr2cHwzY80+R05/5TC7gP4F7qsfLiiEjLptcnQd4DNg/Jt8nag79+C0NK2 DcUTc6mgbup2mtXysOO1QsL7tkwaZzUlFzATffnfziUrgQZMCfkNSGyuok1ZuIuyXsWIr8WuU mLxseNnco60FdzUMldCjTwPMV5JZKPAqwS9ikS8VMA40A34q1r9Hup154Z5Eq/IOC3JzGZvTd UATsG5BcUvf6ZAomeTGS3zbeWQatAJpGQmb73DdlT18p5GAjmfim7oZn4O8344eBgwS3jhE8V QNBjuVJugzcSkYZVcmGqqEmW6yDVp6SU+SK/Dn7g2v1HcLZldo0jHiqe7n5oXCfhfFbT/nVsT P7b6R/FY4sGRzMpT6HrIMYXG0T7h8SCyJGodwS7P0PpCKoewDDco35TLnIxsdzb7QzQrUdj/D jbV8px8+naQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on > Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external programs > when they are available). Something like ls-lisp? Yes, that would be useful. We shall change the title of this bug report, or divide it even into two reports, for find-lisp and grep-lisp. Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 35360) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2019 19:07:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 21 15:07:59 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hIHok-0004P6-J2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:07:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35403) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIHoj-0004Op-19 for 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:07:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIHod-0002XZ-IV; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:07:51 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3373 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hIHoV-0004U6-Th; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:07:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 22:07:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83wojn89ee.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:26 +0000 (UTC)) Subject: Re: bug#35360: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users References: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35360 Cc: 35360 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:26 +0000 (UTC) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > > These keys used to be bound to `dired-do-search' and > `dired-do-query-replace-regexp', by default. Those commands, which > still exist (good), do not require a Windows user to have `find' or > `grep' OS commands available. They require only an Emacs TAGS file. > > Shouldn't the default bindings of `A' and `Q' DTRT on MS Windows out of > the box? Why assume that Windows users have GNU/Linux commands or their > equivalents? Can't Emacs either bind these keys to what they were bound > to previously or test first whether the requisite OS commands are > available before binding these keys to Emacs commands that won't be > usable for many Windows users? Patches welcome to use Lisp replacements for 'find' and 'grep' on Windows (with a defcustom that will allow to use the external programs when they are available). > It would be better, IMHO, to keep `A' and `Q' bound to their previous, > TAGS-based commands, and introduce new key bindings for the new xref > commands. I don't think this is going to happen, nor that it should happen. We've had this discussion before, I think more than once, it's time to let go.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
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s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=+tu0cm/PAdA39mjI8KoVxqywS3EbCzPbQnh6ONbLS4Q=; b=ipwxFvwYx0KLtzAYFhUQ6TBL6QVuXau2Dkm4q9UcdrYSD0yrsTgBnjkPe9s9yQ9kvWv2 9LgEnavLToK1IEFM/Q5qcKev/7HlSWgqggzNal5d+RgKtIXgp13Dz+jtQzwZya/6ZY7w ifF/xjSD1wmI739MRfq5da68XWsyaHRqoR6DPMGg23kRkFEHMUYJV3cMpoV3iHZ+TxS8 UcK7A60gZoQL9mOnZFOiUd3nVhIkT6LOrzbA2xm79L0bxYRfReXU0pnVHp7heOtCPhOD TNTCWrpgTPsSebndmaRgZ9YDHFRnwRfBm7eAzRX52ZOQNb4yar55YW3sOE4MY4+lNDX3 Dg== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2rytusk54s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:29 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x3LDkXVZ017990 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:28 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2s0fv23jxg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:28 +0000 Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x3LDlR9Y018331 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:27 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2ee4e871-a51a-47fe-bb67-8ff0f12a986b@default> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:47:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 26.2; Default bindings of `A' and `Q' in Dired, for MS Windows users X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4834.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9233 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=993 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904210106 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9233 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904210106 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) These keys used to be bound to `dired-do-search' and `dired-do-query-replace-regexp', by default. Those commands, which still exist (good), do not require a Windows user to have `find' or `grep' OS commands available. They require only an Emacs TAGS file. Shouldn't the default bindings of `A' and `Q' DTRT on MS Windows out of the box? Why assume that Windows users have GNU/Linux commands or their equivalents? Can't Emacs either bind these keys to what they were bound to previously or test first whether the requisite OS commands are available before binding these keys to Emacs commands that won't be usable for many Windows users? It would be better, IMHO, to keep `A' and `Q' bound to their previous, TAGS-based commands, and introduce new key bindings for the new xref commands. That would not break existing keys for MS Windows users. And if the availability of OS commands needed by the xref functions were tested first then the new xref-command key bindings could be skipped if those OS commands are not present. In such an approach all users, on all platforms, would all once again have the same commands for `A' and `Q'. In GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13 Repository revision: fd1b34bfba8f3f6298df47c8e10b61530426f749 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.17134 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3''
Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#35360; Package emacs.
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