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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well
as uncompressed) for current versions
Message-ID: <jwv5z11r6pv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<CADwFkmkXWojE2Kkvi_4ZNaa3Bd5bQMSo97UN9mn7DPi8hZX-UA@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:09:56 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkXWojE2Kkvi_4ZNaa3Bd5bQMSo97UN9mn7DPi8hZX-UA@HIDDEN>
(Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 3 Apr 2021 20:00:51 -0500")
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Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN>, 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN>
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>>>> Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version
>>>> that happens to be the current one.
>>
>> FWIW, the situation is even worse because there's no way to get
>> a permanent link at all: while we do keep some old versions, we don't
>> keep them all. Currently, the limit is set at 20, meaning that we keep
>> up to 20 old versions around per package, and once we hit that limit we
>> start pruning the old versions according to a heuristic that intends to
>> guess which versions are more important to keep.
>
> Why not say, in addition to the above: we never delete anything more
> recent than N years or months?
Yes, that's probably what we should do (tho only for the release
tarballs rather than the devel tarballs).
Patch welcome (the relevant code is in `elpaa--prune-old-tarballs` tho
changes elsewhere will be needed to propagate whether we're pruning
release tarballs or devel tarballs).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46441) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Apr 2021 01:01:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 03 21:01:02 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34664 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lSr8Q-0004fO-6i for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:01:02 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:46881) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lSr8L-0004eh-BA for 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:01:00 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id t20so4072854plr.13 for <46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DxI4K1s6fkzJvu4vn7Bt8m19ZkJGZzKoLQ/JwuBJHm0=; b=QioqPUhUWoDSJ0UYgPclCZeyn+aumH4djzYPy0GDakuELs8syGYDfjGNaulR78aXQI VfZg1dDjgoErHuCRCB1WG4UV+AaJR2+vPhPSBL9xGTYweXFjM7EN7Sz1ZUtt53Wnz9vb kzXo0+PnPaHi5CdgonaRUN7hjvNTkWJG3u+Sec03bDsWqv9LcofRt53UfR7fb4YGSGxz mAhXnFaW4VZl3sg9Pahk/EsG3BV7DYEBHL/JZEhOxUtZI/wIyi0WYjW4r/T+gnNkavwp WJ5ihBJOz+JNq079bB4CatePZBIC0CNfks5Sspn6bSZw+g1eRqgYudA6JnxSRvjBn8Q1 98AA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5325REM5fekl9rBeK6Ciex8SxQ/msRbbw+cJAUR2M1ANSpOo00UM mqm8VDFeDrJVQDK09ZFJ+kZeQ6eTL/0CYnM9uPY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx1PRYGoyZllrtDzGkOGpzB6L2HfOekerOISzbFO4xy5+sru4qa03QJs5vCcAsfy+fujnXXByK9MxQjNtrxYxg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:bd09:: with SMTP id y9mr19959314pjr.179.1617498051395; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 18:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 20:00:51 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:10:01 -0500") References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 20:00:51 -0500 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkXWojE2Kkvi_4ZNaa3Bd5bQMSo97UN9mn7DPi8hZX-UA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN>, 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >>> Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version >>> that happens to be the current one. > > FWIW, the situation is even worse because there's no way to get > a permanent link at all: while we do keep some old versions, we don't > keep them all. Currently, the limit is set at 20, meaning that we keep > up to 20 old versions around per package, and once we hit that limit we > start pruning the old versions according to a heuristic that intends to > guess which versions are more important to keep. Why not say, in addition to the above: we never delete anything more recent than N years or months?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well
as uncompressed) for current versions
Message-ID: <jwvim6xc6m4.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87tuqhf80p.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:26:31 -0500
In-Reply-To: <87tuqhf80p.fsf@HIDDEN> (Mauricio Collares's message of
"Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:36:22 -0300")
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> Thanks for the reply! The particular use case here is to have a
> reproducible environment via the Nix package manager.
I see, yes that makes sense. Hmm...
> months, it's fair to say a "year's worth" of stability would reduce
> user-facing problems to almost zero -- and I guess archiving 20 releases
> provides that with room to spare.
Actually, 20 is not necessarily that generous in this regard: it's 20
total, but we try to preserve "key" releases (e.g. the ones where the
leading number increased and the ones just before that) rather than
focus only on the most recent ones. So if the latest version is 6.7,
it's quite possible that 6.4 came out fairly recently but has already
been pruned because we preferred to keep some older ones instead.
If you can work from the elpa.git instead, then you'll avoid those
problems (but the content is slightly different, so it might be less
convenient).
> If it's possible to do this for any package, then this is a great
> alternative! I see there's an elpa-packages file in the ELPA Git repo
> pointing to the sources for each package, which is definitely a format
> that Nix can work with. A few questions, just to be sure:
The URL just points to the "expected" upstream location. The GNU ELPA
packages are never built from the data at that URL but from the (more or
less) copies we keep in the branches in `elpa.git`.
> 1) When does a commit to the package's repo generate a new release on
> ELPA? (every commit triggers a release?)
When the commit changes the `Version:` header in the main file.
> 2) Are there "exceptions" to the list in elpa-packages? That is, if a
> package's repo is listed nil in elpa-packages, is it guaranteed that a
> branch will exist for that package in ELPA's Git repo?
Regardless of the `:url`, the package's code is kept in the
corresponding `externals/[PKGNAME]` branch.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions In-reply-to: <87eehlqf2y.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:31:37 -0300 Message-ID: <87h7mhf5gm.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Basil L. Contovounesios <contovob@HIDDEN> writes: > Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> writes: > >> Thanks for the reply! The particular use case here is to have a >> reproducible environment via the Nix package manager. Omitting >> irrelevant details, Nix is a source-based package manager whose >> "recipes" for building packages typically start by doing the equivalent >> of "download this file with this sha256 from this URL" (actually, this >> is typically done by fetching a specific commit from a repository, but >> in this case I believe tarballs are the only option); > > What are the obstacles to fetching from elpa.git here? > E.g. http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/?h=externals/auctex Hi Basil, If it's possible to do this for any package, then this is a great alternative! I see there's an elpa-packages file in the ELPA Git repo pointing to the sources for each package, which is definitely a format that Nix can work with. A few questions, just to be sure: 1) When does a commit to the package's repo generate a new release on ELPA? (every commit triggers a release?) 2) Are there "exceptions" to the list in elpa-packages? That is, if a package's repo is listed nil in elpa-packages, is it guaranteed that a branch will exist for that package in ELPA's Git repo? Thanks, Mauricio
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46441) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2021 19:08:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 12 14:08:32 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAdns-0000co-Et for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:08:32 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com ([209.85.221.47]:44303) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <contovob@HIDDEN>) id 1lAdnp-0000cZ-SG for 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:08:30 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id g6so402900wrs.11 for <46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:08:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=A2AdNV48RMYcM+DqMT5vzWPOkOWlDh0sGXWQa1UovVk=; b=TkYl6MEIsOtVy0KtQO2Z05tVtkzpMP1UEaMwDVunPwrlKl/rMuPDULiChoEHObf81k hEJ4BgoDhhrmfa3s2zpnmNPH6nqT1xWqmgnv6T7Xf0RrlvMrfaa+Z7eLSNLpR6iobjny +CBeQe8KQ9NZ38mQPdjTkhXdR7sjTEtFOF+BCjjs1ez9C6mS+FXXIUmrkbMiW105SNEE 7sVyfDSUejP+sb71wz5YbZ01xBZtoWcpyShOz40M1X3eoz8vtxTD5BZa2RcAR65JliHP ZnzLeb4vKdZm1cKDo3B+uE5m8F8AjjaP0DLh93zOzYfGVkjVs+k5GNYvkncPyhR9dMAb +5zw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=A2AdNV48RMYcM+DqMT5vzWPOkOWlDh0sGXWQa1UovVk=; b=FizIp3/iEYY4wBPHdPOnuGXTn1Fgg8itpfxg3aM7LILHQkSKZaqS/k0xkv20OZ42Kp gskQF5kPJdpLeuge6RoeTsauDxLPfRRnSTlF1+YYe7oGaiiz2cJxaY/+IdDpj358XQ1V Y5kjxVYFKGm0DbXUrRs3lQbA0tUa4DxHT6UYtPD2coBA5ugW2dw6ylVIi0hM9kgKdP/Q M7xH/Iew8roQFL3GrCuUSeIdpq9uW47mWjwvUy5HYRzEw1bmpUUhKBqS9p2mMk9djUrG 6YFDTiSVQRpEDw9ck3qw8e1ePMjUYtXQjaUPkD4d3ZQ2xOZEn1BBQZHxlxgFBFI9Iiuv v9ZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rKDc239jfW0at1Mf7FE6DBa/Ss/Ns9ZCsQEFDRgR6mEl4A6we a2SBgb77b44sLnD4TUFcCebA4A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz03U4Vzq3uC/+w16gyO+mpMDTahOPbDIUIsFKGwA7Py7c1mmC0+naNGjHAomAeg6u/+vkJxg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f549:: with SMTP id j9mr5047329wrp.347.1613156904046; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:f410:82e8:3a21:eedf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s11sm7495437wra.82.2021.02.12.11.08.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:08:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN> To: Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87tuqhf80p.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 19:08:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87tuqhf80p.fsf@HIDDEN> (Mauricio Collares's message of "Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:36:22 -0300") Message-ID: <87eehlqf2y.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> writes: > Thanks for the reply! The particular use case here is to have a > reproducible environment via the Nix package manager. Omitting > irrelevant details, Nix is a source-based package manager whose > "recipes" for building packages typically start by doing the equivalent > of "download this file with this sha256 from this URL" (actually, this > is typically done by fetching a specific commit from a repository, but > in this case I believe tarballs are the only option); What are the obstacles to fetching from elpa.git here? E.g. http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/?h=externals/auctex Thanks, -- Basil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions In-reply-to: <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:41:13 -0300 Message-ID: <87o8gpf7sm.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Basil L. Contovounesios <contovob@HIDDEN> writes: > [CCing the GNU ELPA maintainer.] > > Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> writes: > >> Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version >> that happens to be the current one. For example, auctex is currently at >> version 13.0.4; today I can download it from >> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex-13.0.4.tar, but this link will stop >> working as soon as a new version of auctex is released and the old >> version gets compressed. This makes it slightly annoying to pin a >> particular version of an ELPA package by URL. >> >> I would like to ask the GNU ELPA maintainers to host both >> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION.lz (permanent) as >> well as https://elpa.gnu.org/packagesa/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION >> (temporary). This would make it easier for people to build reproducible >> environments by pinning a package version. I don't particularly care >> about exposing it as a link on the website; for my purposes, it's enough >> that the file exists. This is perhaps a little bit wasteful, but >> compressed versions shouldn't be too big. > > Wouldn't it be wasteless if the "current version" URL was symbolic and > resolved to the concrete versioned release? Hi Basil, Thanks for taking the time to reply! I think my use of "CURRENTVERSION" in the previous email URL was ambiguous. Concretely, what I want to have is to be able to fetch auctex 13.0.4 (which, as of 2021-02-12 is the current version) through a URL that will still serve the exact same file (auctex 13.0.4, and ideally same sha256) a year from now. If I understand correctly, your suggestion gives a link that always points to the newest version, due to ambiguity in my previous email. I apologize for the confusion. Best, Mauricio
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46441) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2021 18:36:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 12 13:36:49 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAdJ8-0008IR-CJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:36:49 -0500 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:44053) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mauricio@HIDDEN>) id 1lAdJ3-0008IB-Ca for 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:36:44 -0500 Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDA2C9A; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:36:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=collares.org; h= references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=Vs4iJtJqc3CPbcsjNEeU6MjSz6 GmHuOJ74M4FPf1Z70=; b=kbTkgyvH86zKXH9SoSMUca7Y8QrpjxNuGxQYAAFGIs 4AqND1n2uSoo87ECpePjr3PJm/qH1sK+PjKEy7Y79s/sdSQee3MgBYEhIvbqDT2e dRP531BzbPmRX5YzwC0MxSDePy7KXuGMH3TmJdfb9/Fg6iefRzbvKz8PQLY49YGe 19G8HyZzy+mNzYFNyxG2z9KN02q/Cjo/MRXCUP0wq0uu/Ije4jAOvLzb0DRxjKRY iYE6L3wMCQ1WgSAu6AE95ZYPjXmu6zjoAZprRFlzcWJRCS08SN3XTY1mNnQV4Pcf yN9vHOrHX8pSr8S2fmoS5wJfixJmNR4qOp9MNwqSnuJg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=Vs4iJt Jqc3CPbcsjNEeU6MjSz6GmHuOJ74M4FPf1Z70=; b=KtxusLPzOt28GAWY+ei/Mf WaephdHh4mPTKqR1FH2m1+UmjVEDuRWdtRWL+4xb62li9KZzs15+PbFJ3pRKWeKb Q18b9wk2QZp2mDi19MN7J7QoznRYx8u/hxiWNlSofdx3hKhw6Q6pHQl43wHTAxcI Jjefjwo7xEAFPl0X6HRP+Tw8dEGm0tkOncWRVYaAH3toqreHLsl3eXE2FPNMU7cK LfgH2PXXocArlYOIB+yvVYrSR89+Ji5CcnEgNcw7XF9TJhxYQrYqdXj0pEfexiDE 0s9qVXBoj5odANqj6n4fFWmUtGowBkrKFo3I5fu/kpD7EeWCr8Ryj0HBmSDpBLCQ == X-ME-Sender: <xms:ssomYLBV1BgZxgRbXiYPVBVUlf4y_ddSgt50oEGC1fCqE_IySZ6pfA> <xme:ssomYPWpxM6wZbWj0iM82XBwu5wsXMxS2oyr87m3qtRH3psLnfTJVIhgtfWMC12e8 6VJ_S00Z2bsPMzrcA> X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledriedugdduudekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfhgfhffvufgjfffkgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpeforghurhhi tghiohcuveholhhlrghrvghsuceomhgruhhrihgtihhosegtohhllhgrrhgvshdrohhrgh eqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepteeuhfdvhfekvdffvdetieejleejjeeluefgleduvdeg veejfeffffefffefgeehnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgnhhurdhorhhgpdhtfigvrghgrdhioh enucfkphepudeluddrudekhedrfeegrddvudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptden ucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhgruhhrihgtihhosegtohhllhgrrhgvshdroh hrgh X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:ssomYBCxi4swYO5V6qIlu07bEr0UWlBC18vjPCTaRZCF0nViYFFr-g> <xmx:ssomYK8R5VQyzfJyFN_NREu-9kuEy33vD9IrFzjs2OSLxeozQBVQzA> <xmx:ssomYAHVqoqhhNyqTAeX8ORaC-Zaq7POKxb5Sf9esG-YUp600zMBnw> <xmx:ssomYFMy_qUFmXelL2cA4wt1tqSVvRn57bPK-ZwkmuQ_qfC5__Q-fA> Received: from asus (unknown [191.185.34.215]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 66BA61080092; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:36:31 -0500 (EST) References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 28.0.50 From: Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions In-reply-to: <jwv5z2xduzz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:36:22 -0300 Message-ID: <87tuqhf80p.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN>, 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >>> Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version >>> that happens to be the current one. > > FWIW, the situation is even worse because there's no way to get > a permanent link at all: while we do keep some old versions, we don't > keep them all. Currently, the limit is set at 20, meaning that we keep > up to 20 old versions around per package, and once we hit that limit we > start pruning the old versions according to a heuristic that intends to > guess which versions are more important to keep. > > So that makes me question your "upstream" need. > >>> For example, auctex is currently at >>> version 13.0.4; today I can download it from >>> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex-13.0.4.tar, but this link will stop >>> working as soon as a new version of auctex is released and the old >>> version gets compressed. This makes it slightly annoying to pin a >>> particular version of an ELPA package by URL. > > Could you expand a bit on why you need to keep references to old > versions, and why you decided to use URLs for that? > That will hopefully help us see what is the best course of action > from here. Hi Stefan, Thanks for the reply! The particular use case here is to have a reproducible environment via the Nix package manager. Omitting irrelevant details, Nix is a source-based package manager whose "recipes" for building packages typically start by doing the equivalent of "download this file with this sha256 from this URL" (actually, this is typically done by fetching a specific commit from a repository, but in this case I believe tarballs are the only option); that is, all packages are pinned. This is done for emacs packages too, so it is possible to have the same exact emacs setup on several machines or to recover the exact same state if you have to reinstall everything from scratch for some reason. No one that uses Nix expects things to work "forevermore" since source tarballs frequently disappear (people are working on that, though [0]), but frequently-updated ELPA packages basically "break" reproducibility every week. More concretely, if I commit my Nix configuration to a Git repo and a co-worker wants to use it a week from now, it's likely that the auctex fetch step will fail. Since NixOS releases happen every six months, it's fair to say a "year's worth" of stability would reduce user-facing problems to almost zero -- and I guess archiving 20 releases provides that with room to spare. Best, Mauricio [0] https://www.tweag.io/blog/2020-06-18-software-heritage/
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well
as uncompressed) for current versions
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>> Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version
>> that happens to be the current one.
FWIW, the situation is even worse because there's no way to get
a permanent link at all: while we do keep some old versions, we don't
keep them all. Currently, the limit is set at 20, meaning that we keep
up to 20 old versions around per package, and once we hit that limit we
start pruning the old versions according to a heuristic that intends to
guess which versions are more important to keep.
So that makes me question your "upstream" need.
>> For example, auctex is currently at
>> version 13.0.4; today I can download it from
>> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex-13.0.4.tar, but this link will stop
>> working as soon as a new version of auctex is released and the old
>> version gets compressed. This makes it slightly annoying to pin a
>> particular version of an ELPA package by URL.
Could you expand a bit on why you need to keep references to old
versions, and why you decided to use URLs for that?
That will hopefully help us see what is the best course of action
from here.
Stefan "not opposed to building the .lz eagerly"
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46441) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2021 17:32:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 12 12:32:34 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAcJ0-0006lw-LV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:32:34 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com ([209.85.221.42]:42472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <contovob@HIDDEN>) id 1lAcIw-0006lh-Qg for 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:32:33 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id r21so64945wrr.9 for <46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:32:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=KeZn60Iox0k5kVuq+x0Ed3HkN0T6pNg3DTtYTt9JT9M=; b=VGyXBi4CTRnJArwWiAGWpT4EmdlQ/yuKuG9vBHGC/Cy0GJ6t/1HdJSON6d/2gb/6wM gj5VGEC8zRvsNfO8kjOGX3aZFlWq2tCDf6NODIKkR6e0SC1GV8w3SjdlvtEqWnq50cvI S5WX9VPM8H1GzuNG/efPpNOs6/LtkN9CPnzQ2mrLJOG1O7VHP1k1xFEeCeS/BjPer3+T LqAbewANz34r/GCfOEzubdCsApW6GGNbfe5ProyuzmfJI8I/Z2kqlVYSFHHbNtYwZGMN SLHlMEU+TS22OHMJdQO2OgxrjtZrS/94tomYb9glxOWXpkw6t+cGmSce67YIxQ2qI4Yg 3y5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=KeZn60Iox0k5kVuq+x0Ed3HkN0T6pNg3DTtYTt9JT9M=; b=Y+JuCznBQMtfwPU000LYh7xU/zjVNj4Ks7L4ehWoN57LZYSr7wBhPiaq9dx+SCflUm 9jGKKGuNAdnZaYQh8e7aUPtfh6eaBR2dJYHnw0IBEHL7nBDD6tHqHI3Vyt+BZ2cq3XxE jsSN5Jezge3DEbFsPmkeC8zng13ZO4o+yH9qzIp7JCh5wFftPYeX0rRfmvk1NYXy2AAH xSgPHYs31gPwCfOKc0hgBpICgvZGIxCZH1wkkSJfKqUlD2h1dOR3vX82/mXh59maLnMU XCHq3ZOaU/7USeavudfj5k6TWKJK3Hvn23zoIcL9mGWLjSXsbkGI5Palk29uNHhxu2Q5 xZ+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532TvczJwh71NFrmLh8G+tk21bgl0hENtbBl0uMJrSMJXWSgdILx y+7adRuWSVjODdH0EelwQTJI7A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxRoa5acdG6EurMW8LWuW+aDlITIML8/HXqlZE5JgV6FcGRuPwXwGMHOntBQ+Fuetf0B8YxEQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4c82:: with SMTP id z2mr3732024wrs.220.1613151144852; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:f410:82e8:3a21:eedf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r16sm10250228wrt.68.2021.02.12.09.32.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:32:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@HIDDEN> To: Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46441: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions References: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:32:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> (Mauricio Collares's message of "Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:46:42 -0300") Message-ID: <87ft21qjiw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46441 Cc: 46441 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [CCing the GNU ELPA maintainer.] Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> writes: > Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version > that happens to be the current one. For example, auctex is currently at > version 13.0.4; today I can download it from > https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex-13.0.4.tar, but this link will stop > working as soon as a new version of auctex is released and the old > version gets compressed. This makes it slightly annoying to pin a > particular version of an ELPA package by URL. > > I would like to ask the GNU ELPA maintainers to host both > https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION.lz (permanent) as > well as https://elpa.gnu.org/packagesa/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION > (temporary). This would make it easier for people to build reproducible > environments by pinning a package version. I don't particularly care > about exposing it as a link on the website; for my purposes, it's enough > that the file exists. This is perhaps a little bit wasteful, but > compressed versions shouldn't be too big. Wouldn't it be wasteless if the "current version" URL was symbolic and resolved to the concrete versioned release? Thanks, -- Basil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:46:48 -0500 (EST) From: Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: GNU ELPA feature request: host .lz archives (as well as uncompressed) for current versions Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:46:42 -0300 Message-ID: <87r1lml74t.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.28; envelope-from=mauricio@HIDDEN; helo=out4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Currently, there's no way to get a permanent link to a package version that happens to be the current one. For example, auctex is currently at version 13.0.4; today I can download it from https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex-13.0.4.tar, but this link will stop working as soon as a new version of auctex is released and the old version gets compressed. This makes it slightly annoying to pin a particular version of an ELPA package by URL. I would like to ask the GNU ELPA maintainers to host both https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION.lz (permanent) as well as https://elpa.gnu.org/packagesa/PACKAGE-CURRENTVERSION (temporary). This would make it easier for people to build reproducible environments by pinning a package version. I don't particularly care about exposing it as a link on the website; for my purposes, it's enough that the file exists. This is perhaps a little bit wasteful, but compressed versions shouldn't be too big. Best, Mauricio
Mauricio Collares <mauricio@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46441; Package emacs.
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