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Subject: bug#56556: texlive-babel-dutch with and without texlive-hyphen-dutch: No hyphenation patterns were preloaded
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Neither texlive-babel-dutch nor texlive-hyphen-dutch load hyphenation.

Test document:

  \documentclass{article}
  \usepackage[dutch]{babel}
  \begin{document}
  test
  \end{document}

Running with texlive-babel-dutch only:

  $ guix shell --pure texlive-base texlive-babel-dutch -- pdflatex test.tex
  This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/GNU Guix) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
   restricted \write18 enabled.
  entering extended mode
  (./test.tex
  LaTeX2e <2020-10-01> patch level 4
  L3 programming layer <2021-02-18> (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/article.cls
  Document Class: article 2020/04/10 v1.4m Standard LaTeX document class
  (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo)) (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.sty (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.def (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/config/language.def) (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/txtbabel.def)) (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-dutch/dutch.ldf

  Package babel Warning: No hyphenation patterns were preloaded for
  (babel)                the language `Dutch' into the format.
  (babel)                Please, configure your TeX system to add them and
  (babel)                rebuild the format. Now I will use the patterns
  (babel)                preloaded for \language=0 instead on input line 49.

  )) (/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3backend/l3backend-pdftex.def) (./test.aux) [1{/gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}] (./test.aux) ) </gnu/store/1p55mddnasba5xq2vcnzyc8wjywn4cwn-profile/share/texmf-dist/fonts/pk/ljfour/public/cm/dpi600/cmr10.pk>
  Output written on test.pdf (1 page, 2226 bytes).
  Transcript written on test.log.

With texlive-hyphen-dutch included:

  $ guix shell --pure texlive-base texlive-babel-dutch texlive-hyphen-dutch -- pdflatex test.tex
  This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/GNU Guix) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
   restricted \write18 enabled.
  entering extended mode
  (./test.tex
  LaTeX2e <2020-10-01> patch level 4
  L3 programming layer <2021-02-18> (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/article.cls
  Document Class: article 2020/04/10 v1.4m Standard LaTeX document class
  (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo)) (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.sty (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.def (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/config/language.def) (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/txtbabel.def)) (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-dutch/dutch.ldf

  Package babel Warning: No hyphenation patterns were preloaded for
  (babel)                the language `Dutch' into the format.
  (babel)                Please, configure your TeX system to add them and
  (babel)                rebuild the format. Now I will use the patterns
  (babel)                preloaded for \language=0 instead on input line 49.

  )) (/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3backend/l3backend-pdftex.def) (./test.aux) [1{/gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}] (./test.aux) ) </gnu/store/c61c43w5c7dlz7ipxcqi4z385p3a4dzb-profile/share/texmf-dist/fonts/pk/ljfour/public/cm/dpi600/cmr10.pk>
  Output written on test.pdf (1 page, 2226 bytes).
  Transcript written on test.log.

Problem does not occur when using the complete TeX Live distribution:

  $ guix shell --pure texlive -- pdflatex test.tex
  This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/GNU Guix) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
   restricted \write18 enabled.
  entering extended mode
  (./test.tex
  LaTeX2e <2020-10-01> patch level 4
  L3 programming layer <2021-02-18>
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/latex/base/article.cls
  Document Class: article 2020/04/10 v1.4m Standard LaTeX document class

  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo))
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.sty
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.def
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/generic/babel/txtbabel.def))
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/generic/babel-dutch/dutch.ldf))
  (/gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf
  -dist/tex/latex/l3backend/l3backend-pdftex.def) (./test.aux) [1{/gnu/store/lgkf
  z7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbvx1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf-dist/fonts/map/
  pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}] (./test.aux) )</gnu/store/lgkfz7wg59sg81zlf3xy7i7dbv
  x1fvyp-texlive-texmf-20210325/share/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/public/amsfonts/cm/c
  mr10.pfb>
  Output written on test.pdf (1 page, 10613 bytes).
  Transcript written on test.log.

Am I doing something wrong?

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Remco van 't Veer <remco@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#56556: Acknowledgement (texlive-babel-dutch with and without
 texlive-hyphen-dutch: No hyphenation patterns were preloaded)
Message-ID: <handler.56556.B.165780799312000.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Reply-To: 56556 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 14:14:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

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has been received.

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 Content preview: I have the same issue. Tested in German language -- it works
 just fine with the full-fledged LaTeX environment. I have the same issue.
 Tested in German language -- it works just fine with the full-fledged LaTeX
 environment. 
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I have the same issue. Tested in German language -- it works just fine with=
 the full-fledged LaTeX environment.

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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=
=3D"elementToProof">
I have the same issue. Tested in German language -- it works just fine with=
 the full-fledged LaTeX environment.<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_ZR0P278MB02688BC203705B4164D6B1F5C1629ZR0P278MB0268CHEP_--

Message sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#56556: TeXlive packaging issues
In-Reply-To: <87o7xr2369.fsf@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Emmanuel Beffara <manu@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 21:30:44 +0200
Message-ID: <20230328213044.GB4873@HIDDEN>
From: Emmanuel Beffara <manu@HIDDEN>
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Hello Guix,

I would like to share a few thoughts on how TeXlive is currently handled in
Guix. The package `texlive` contains all of TeXlive, it works fine but it is
arguably too big to be practical. The documentation rightfully says

> We recommend using the modular package set because it is much less
> resource-hungry. 

Yet assembling modular sets is problematic for various reasons.

Firstly, unless I am missing something, creating a manifest with the right set
of packages is tedious: one has to guess the Guix package that matches each
LaTeX package, and the correspondence is not obvious. Thankfully, with a
working installation, `tlmgr show something.sty` helps finding the TeXlive
package that contains the file and `guix search texlive something` finds the
corresponding Guix package if there is one (it could be named
`texlive-something` or `texlive-latex-something`, this feels somewhat
inconsistent). When trying to compile a complex document, doing that for every
package and dependency is time-consuming (compile, read compilation errors,
install more packages, restart).

Secondly, many packages are missing. Apparently, `(gnu packages tex)` contains
an arbitrary set of common packages, likely defined by people who needed them
and had the skill to produce a patch for them. It is fairly easy to produce
new definitions using `guix import texlive something` and adjusting the
result, still it feels more complicated than it ought to be. Considering how
well TeXlive is organized, it should be possible to automatically extract the
set of all packages in a given release and turn the result into a big
comprehensive Guile module.

Besides, importing TeXlive "collections" could be a useful intermediate
between taking the whole system and picking packages individually.

Thirdly, formats are apparently not handled right. The main issue is with
hyphenation (hence the cc on an open issue): hyphenation patterns need to be
compiled into the formats to be available in documents, so the format files
should be built depending on which `texlive-hyphen-something` packages are
installed. Currently this is not the case:

```
$ guix shell --pure coreutils texlive-base texlive-latex-base -- /bin/sh -c 'realpath $GUIX_TEXMF/web2c/pdflatex.fmt'
/gnu/store/m1vh5mm4gjlqzaylfxmxbx5g3j20k8wn-texlive-latex-base-59745/share/texmf-dist/web2c/pdflatex.fmt
$ guix shell --pure coreutils texlive-base texlive-latex-base texlive-hyphen-base texlive-hyphen-french -- /bin/sh -c 'realpath $GUIX_TEXMF/web2c/pdflatex.fmt'
/gnu/store/m1vh5mm4gjlqzaylfxmxbx5g3j20k8wn-texlive-latex-base-59745/share/texmf-dist/web2c/pdflatex.fmt
```

If the format is always the same, then no modular installation can do any
hyphenation, as reported in https://issues.guix.gnu.org/56556. There might be
other things than hyphenation that require similar treatment.

That said, I don't know what would be the best way to contribute.

-- 
Emmanuel

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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Emmanuel,

Emmanuel Beffara <manu@HIDDEN> writes:

> Firstly, unless I am missing something, creating a manifest with the righ=
t set
> of packages is tedious: one has to guess the Guix package that matches ea=
ch
> LaTeX package, and the correspondence is not obvious. Thankfully, with a
> working installation, `tlmgr show something.sty` helps finding the TeXlive
> package that contains the file and `guix search texlive something` finds =
the
> corresponding Guix package if there is one (it could be named
> `texlive-something` or `texlive-latex-something`, this feels somewhat
> inconsistent). When trying to compile a complex document, doing that for =
every
> package and dependency is time-consuming (compile, read compilation error=
s,
> install more packages, restart).

I agree, although this is because the tex packages aren't super well
packaged.  A lot of dependencies aren't actually included, meaning you
need to add them manually.  This could be improved by just fixing those
package definitions to include them, I actually have some comments about
this in my TODOs.

> Secondly, many packages are missing. Apparently, `(gnu packages tex)` con=
tains
> an arbitrary set of common packages, likely defined by people who needed =
them
> and had the skill to produce a patch for them. It is fairly easy to produ=
ce
> new definitions using `guix import texlive something` and adjusting the
> result, still it feels more complicated than it ought to be. Considering =
how
> well TeXlive is organized, it should be possible to automatically extract=
 the
> set of all packages in a given release and turn the result into a big
> comprehensive Guile module.

Actually, no, for 2 reasons: as you said, you often need to adjust the
result of the import, and some of them need to be individually
inspected.  Also, upstream doesn't report what inter-package
dependencies there are (AFAIK).  This prevents us from generating the
right packages (see above).

> Besides, importing TeXlive "collections" could be a useful intermediate
> between taking the whole system and picking packages individually.
>
> Thirdly, formats are apparently not handled right. The main issue is with
> hyphenation (hence the cc on an open issue): hyphenation patterns need to=
 be
> compiled into the formats to be available in documents, so the format fil=
es
> should be built depending on which `texlive-hyphen-something` packages are
> installed. Currently this is not the case:
>
> ```
> $ guix shell --pure coreutils texlive-base texlive-latex-base -- /bin/sh =
-c 'realpath $GUIX_TEXMF/web2c/pdflatex.fmt'
> /gnu/store/m1vh5mm4gjlqzaylfxmxbx5g3j20k8wn-texlive-latex-base-59745/shar=
e/texmf-dist/web2c/pdflatex.fmt
> $ guix shell --pure coreutils texlive-base texlive-latex-base texlive-hyp=
hen-base texlive-hyphen-french -- /bin/sh -c 'realpath $GUIX_TEXMF/web2c/pd=
flatex.fmt'
> /gnu/store/m1vh5mm4gjlqzaylfxmxbx5g3j20k8wn-texlive-latex-base-59745/shar=
e/texmf-dist/web2c/pdflatex.fmt
> ```
>
> If the format is always the same, then no modular installation can do any
> hyphenation, as reported in https://issues.guix.gnu.org/56556. There migh=
t be
> other things than hyphenation that require similar treatment.

I don't really know how we could fix this: maybe build the formats with
all the hyphenation packages enabled?

> That said, I don't know what would be the best way to contribute.

I think fixing step by step all the packages you find to be deficient is
already a good first step.  I've been planning to do that as well but
got swept up in other things.

HTH!

Best,
=2D-=20
Josselin Poiret

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severity 56556 important
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