Received: (at 57939) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2022 10:12:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 20 06:12:56 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oaaFM-0004Dl-0D for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 06:12:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oaaFK-0004DX-P7 for 57939 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 06:12:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KePLp45bFiv2ySRaCoFhwkqane/NauvgBBdXm8izoiE=; b=sSrZfccEc/ROELr1goD088QxfS SLtzy0GJzMUFsN9OlB+6l/vbNl2iqlNAh/suVTR9fCIiAzuvBi6JCxFSpfcoc+NHkUGi3oN6A1rcO wo3P5sSvmijdWvai0zZ/p6irOi54hDSNeS9jEaJyNIbIiW6/srISTHqSlYQicaQNJYys=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oaaFB-00010n-7g; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:12:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57939: 29.0.50; Fixing raise-frame on Sway In-Reply-To: <87y1uelglr.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu via's message of "Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:12:00 +0800") References: <87illj8hdk.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bkran86m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qs6haq3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87y1uelglr.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Espen Reinertsen's _Forgaflingspop_: =?utf-8?Q?=22Bj=C3=B8r?= =?utf-8?Q?nens?= sang" Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:12:44 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmfqmk0z.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes: > I'm not worried about whether or not Sway keeps the interface stable, > the problem is whether or not Sway will still be a thing in 2, 5, 10, or > 20 years. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57939 Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, 57939 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes: > I'm not worried about whether or not Sway keeps the interface stable, > the problem is whether or not Sway will still be a thing in 2, 5, 10, or > 20 years. That is indeed a worry. > Not to mention that Sway is still a niche compositor, compared to the > likes of GNOME Shell or Kwin. > > If we take the route of supporting non-standard interfaces provided by > all "popular" Wayland compositors at any given time, then we will > quickly fall into the rabbit hole of constantly keeping up with changes > to that status quo. There's no set rules for any of this -- but we want Emacs to be as usable as possible across as large a number of systems as possible. This means that we have a lot of special purpose code in Emacs to work around oddities in systems, and to interact with specific systems and libraries. Sway seems to be one of the major players in the Wayland world, so I'd welcome code to make Emacs work better under Sway.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57939; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 86aef939998c2606d80d6208dbafb1ee; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 06:12:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57939: 29.0.50; Fixing raise-frame on Sway References: <87illj8hdk.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bkran86m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qs6haq3.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:12:00 +0800 In-Reply-To: <871qs6haq3.fsf@HIDDEN> (Sean Whitton's message of "Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:32:36 -0700") Message-ID: <87y1uelglr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20663 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 611 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57939 Cc: 57939 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> writes: > Sway is pretty committed to interface stability, but it's a valid concern. I'm not worried about whether or not Sway keeps the interface stable, the problem is whether or not Sway will still be a thing in 2, 5, 10, or 20 years. Not to mention that Sway is still a niche compositor, compared to the likes of GNOME Shell or Kwin. If we take the route of supporting non-standard interfaces provided by all "popular" Wayland compositors at any given time, then we will quickly fall into the rabbit hole of constantly keeping up with changes to that status quo.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57939; Package emacs.
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Tue, 20 Sep 2022 01:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 329B07EF3CE; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:32:36 -0700 (MST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, 57939 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#57939: 29.0.50; Fixing raise-frame on Sway In-Reply-To: <87bkran86m.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu's message of "Tue, 20 Sep 2022 09:30:57 +0800") References: <87illj8hdk.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bkran86m.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:32:36 -0700 Message-ID: <871qs6haq3.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57939 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello, On Tue 20 Sep 2022 at 09:30AM +08, Po Lu wrote: > If there's anything I've learned in over 2 decades of dealing with > windowing on GNU/Linux, it's that these mechanisms tend to be yanked > from underneath our feet. It sounds very risky to add support for that > to such a basic function in Emacs. Sway is pretty committed to interface stability, but it's a valid concern. > And what if there are multiple frames with the same name? What frame is > raised in that case? Yeah, we'd need to make a more precise IPC query to get some sort of unique handle. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57939; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 760231f16efbabf06da96212a107b065; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 01:31:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57939: 29.0.50; Fixing raise-frame on Sway References: <87illj8hdk.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 09:30:57 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87illj8hdk.fsf@HIDDEN> (Sean Whitton's message of "Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:21:27 -0700") Message-ID: <87bkran86m.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20663 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1588 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57939 Cc: 57939 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> writes: > Under Sway, with pgtk, raise-frame doesn't work. We could make it work > by using Sway's IPC to send a request to "focus" the frame. This can be > done without invoking any external processes, but here is a hack using > swaymsg(1) just as a demonstration: > > (defun spw/sway-raise-frame (orig-fun &optional frame) > (unless frame (setq frame (selected-frame))) > (if (member "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway" > (frame-parameter frame 'environment)) > (call-process "swaymsg" nil nil nil > (format "[title=\"%s\"]" > (frame-parameter frame 'name)) > "focus") > (funcall orig-fun frame))) > (advice-add 'raise-frame :around #'spw/sway-raise-frame) > On the one hand, Sway is one of the more popular Wayland compositors, so > it would be nice to support this. On the other hand, this isn't a > generic wlroots mechanism -- it will work only for Sway. (I suppose > it's possible that some other compositors will adopt Sway's IPC.) If there's anything I've learned in over 2 decades of dealing with windowing on GNU/Linux, it's that these mechanisms tend to be yanked from underneath our feet. It sounds very risky to add support for that to such a basic function in Emacs. In addition, raise-frame is not really supposed to focus the frame. But I guess that's unavoidable here. And what if there are multiple frames with the same name? What frame is raised in that case? So thanks, but this is not really the right thing for Emacs.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57939; Package emacs.
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From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 29.0.50; Fixing raise-frame on Sway
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:21:27 -0700
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Under Sway, with pgtk, raise-frame doesn't work. We could make it work
by using Sway's IPC to send a request to "focus" the frame. This can be
done without invoking any external processes, but here is a hack using
swaymsg(1) just as a demonstration:
(defun spw/sway-raise-frame (orig-fun &optional frame)
(unless frame (setq frame (selected-frame)))
(if (member "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway"
(frame-parameter frame 'environment))
(call-process "swaymsg" nil nil nil
(format "[title=\"%s\"]"
(frame-parameter frame 'name))
"focus")
(funcall orig-fun frame)))
(advice-add 'raise-frame :around #'spw/sway-raise-frame)
On the one hand, Sway is one of the more popular Wayland compositors, so
it would be nice to support this. On the other hand, this isn't a
generic wlroots mechanism -- it will work only for Sway. (I suppose
it's possible that some other compositors will adopt Sway's IPC.)
Would this be an appropriate thing to add to raise-frame? Or is it
better left as a piece of advice? The IPC protocol is documented here:
<https://manpages.debian.org/sway-ipc>.
--
Sean Whitton
Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57939; Package emacs.
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