Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 18:37:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 13:37:26 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49592 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD8dh-0004EA-Ms for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:37:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD8dg-0004Dw-At for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:37:24 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD8da-0002jH-4Y; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:37:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sERsRw412bMDmyou5BZSZAblZ1pCF7Dy7x2mc152pC8=; b=JEW+jNwCW/Tn 1miDsK8KIft3p7r25O6WUYUusQgW+hKT4onZSTIHw4DPZzWOrBlxb7f2uFK5Xe/NsyMeOHrQyZ/wR lJ9yd3HPxi8uRHb+Pdc77lGX5LonQvldFr9Q5aY+Ivi03Ak1aD8ZiCcVE96vKL49sOjpoU4UrB/v7 k/dNR4wmn93aThDsafyIzwCNLINjk0fH71p1Qu/UrjNbgKZ2epTipDDd8pQo+3uOa+mQ8bGOMaE2/ qy9GnWxsO/54x9pGGAYjQ6RxLT385sTVmT55p/VxUjAyfMI0Kms6W++22hoaQyIM2wCsl5ShoSRmU 6+2484U96QHTQfM29Hm5ig==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD8dZ-00046h-64; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:37:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 20:37:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83v8lmxi1h.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <0633641c-0fb3-8778-78b2-f9b827ca5b4a@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:45:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> <b541270c-dfaf-c8b5-e923-be961ca5529d@HIDDEN> <835ydmz0dh.fsf@HIDDEN> <0633641c-0fb3-8778-78b2-f9b827ca5b4a@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:45:45 +0200 > Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> > > > I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier. But we are > > supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of > > implementation. And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant > > and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI > > which breaks less habits. > > Using proper abstractions is what can lead to predictable, better UI. > And vice versa -- patching through special cases upon special cases > leads to less predictable, worse UI. > > I wasn't talking about the ease of implementation, really. Not necessarily. And let's stop here and agree to disagree about this, okay?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
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Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 18:27:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 13:27:13 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49570 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD8Tp-0003vc-He for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:27:13 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <bugs@HIDDEN>) id 1pD8Tn-0003uy-W7 for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:27:12 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.10.238]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D56.0000000063B5C502.00000A7F; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 11:27:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 21:17:35 +0300 From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Message-ID: <Y7XCv8DMyAUK7Hh9@HIDDEN> References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548826FFEE7DED16806A1ABAF3F49@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB548826FFEE7DED16806A1ABAF3F49@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: "60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> [2023-01-03 23:17]: > FWIW, Icicles removes `SPC' for word completion by > default (since 2005, i.e., nearly the beginning). > It puts word completion on a different key > (`M-SPC', by default). I would prefer this approach, though I don't find completing by word useful. Do you have some example where word by word would be useful? -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
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Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 18:27:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 13:27:11 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49567 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD8Tn-0003vM-6X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:27:11 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <bugs@HIDDEN>) id 1pD8Tk-0003uy-3g for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 13:27:08 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.10.238]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D83.0000000063B5C4FE.00000A73; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 11:27:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 21:14:14 +0300 From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Message-ID: <Y7XB9vNKDPyHkDPz@HIDDEN> References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> [2023-01-03 22:07]: > I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it > makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion. > > Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the > things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names, > which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names), > but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the > use of a SPC character to specify how to select the > completion candidates. > > So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding. > Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of > Emacs) could easily get it back with: Thanks. It will help in my packages as I have completion which I need to be editable by user, such as header, footer specification and inserting space require knowing how to use `C-q SPC', not a big deal, but it will help in usability. For completion I use TAB, instead of space. Space goes slow word by word, but I did not find use for it yet. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
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Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 17:45:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 12:45:55 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49505 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD7pq-0002m8-Kt for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:45:55 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f49.google.com ([209.85.218.49]:46689) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <raaahh@HIDDEN>) id 1pD7pp-0002lv-CP for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:45:54 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f49.google.com with SMTP id fy8so20434187ejc.13 for <60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:45:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XOpa3ZqSzNESQRKEp30giOoMM6RBXLr7g83/QKGCCn0=; b=XOYPqT9N+6M6pXTmYrQbZI4Yiqz+lBFzQ9KBd8n2BXLS8dsp7+0EEF0Uj7b1O7ewXQ vKFniQYnoViJkxAX6BfZ0peikkXdJrjMQnzWR9kYAvjWOy5Ki6eKR29wTAjomvUvJ6Fc jCChT3kq1+q8lE245FX8JJyVSBzYTXVch5Si8aZw1uchutZ+TOm25tiCqkpZtsg8Op4t NCE06lXC4vFWUIxeThhoMPKE21uLaMOic3yjGx3zeRYTu7PWhUWqLsEdJMMcEq6Slaia zJtcOmnVhQYVkn+46DC3K1DK1McX9MY1fcYBQIIPWcUGYsRhAG8DwZXYUpN8Ncr8WylI JXmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XOpa3ZqSzNESQRKEp30giOoMM6RBXLr7g83/QKGCCn0=; b=iuo0353EHVKBg2OFWcpNk5zDPU1l96xlWcCFyu4yNHdHdz2t97br8SCJkobxi4jM4M LMjg3aBN0OVb1nYbdGTAMKOkdtqHFrrzyTmD8KMARtFQrWU6A2HcwPHxnGsrkN2ZMbU3 JZPw/fYaXaSXbhZRS3/tY8/WAu8xULW/11CWhUz9a6drpAeqigEsloC+ZNKWFOtXufXD go2fsqItocdyiu6VjjohqRbiA47K0+pY+NvhMltMQN3v4s6KmN0g1ZsT1Ef8Sjj8cLh7 j6D5DLmdHV/ZfdGhZq6QYWLITvUhek+KM6fCqqIXlTSTZLlivWLBFO8XlSxZEO9wf6Bq P0Ng== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kondKvx4frB3VNvsbtwgwwis5BV58DHSZEDCYwauyLMiro3YrJ/ 2G0RtozJFBrm2tUYNxA3rNc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXtXfVhuqMAIZtL4qLfSVPciZAkMO4tgwUwN3h/M9nctAspGdegAAqxxUCxrFfIP3yOrWQ67Rg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3445:b0:7ad:c5b7:1c79 with SMTP id ac5-20020a170907344500b007adc5b71c79mr35038809ejc.45.1672854347641; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x11-20020a170906b08b00b007806c1474e1sm15469203ejy.127.2023.01.04.09.45.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <0633641c-0fb3-8778-78b2-f9b827ca5b4a@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:45:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> <b541270c-dfaf-c8b5-e923-be961ca5529d@HIDDEN> <835ydmz0dh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <835ydmz0dh.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 04/01/2023 19:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200 >> Cc:60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,monnier@HIDDEN >> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> >> >> On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior. Stefan proposed >>> at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing >>> behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come >>> very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop >>> short of breaking someone's muscle memory. >> The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes >> different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, >> "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think >> many users expect. Especially novices. >> >> The second alternative is even more involved, requiring >> 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will >> want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and >> seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not >> know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break >> established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start >> to make this choice. > I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier. But we are > supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of > implementation. And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant > and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI > which breaks less habits. Using proper abstractions is what can lead to predictable, better UI. And vice versa -- patching through special cases upon special cases leads to less predictable, worse UI. I wasn't talking about the ease of implementation, really. > Many Emacs's abstractions leak from many > holes anyway. That's more of a problem for a UI which is used in many, many places and in different contexts.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 17:16:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 12:16:13 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49484 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD7N1-0001qk-3t for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:16:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD7My-0001q1-2z for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:16:04 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD7Ms-0003f2-Lz; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:15:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=nMPbLn4BvsJXopBWKA9g5gan1piSL94IuTGea6ZweMo=; b=LWMbhiQhgXWl K3UrLY7fvVOZWu16CLXhgA78Uy4CLOvlLpb5VXxWcVb4blHJ023/BBWS+c6YRprsgpkn/4S80bh56 HnRvoKzjz3ugTlJ5517sGP2piskgfeqJSYFBlQnKzL9yBuJXlB1CvkzELrnNxbt0zCgpuUMUc8opZ rgl5oyrUiZC7y5GDf9vQbhzvxUybfvuorgbu00XMnO+3+zrn+38hkSvaZboa8Bc46F3DWRITz7Z3b 90ACCQmfjE4fiPPYClOJqZuasoO809zwO1nt1ZQ1r+/KXsxgJZNwTT4aKxJoCcWDz2tL4T8jv5unq t2lG62fmoMzDEEqOr5SEOA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD7Mr-0003pb-LH; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:15:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 19:16:10 +0200 Message-Id: <835ydmz0dh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <b541270c-dfaf-c8b5-e923-be961ca5529d@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> <b541270c-dfaf-c8b5-e923-be961ca5529d@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200 > Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> > > On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior. Stefan proposed > > at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing > > behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come > > very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop > > short of breaking someone's muscle memory. > > The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes > different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, > "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think > many users expect. Especially novices. > > The second alternative is even more involved, requiring > 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will > want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and > seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not > know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break > established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start > to make this choice. I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier. But we are supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of implementation. And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI which breaks less habits. Many Emacs's abstractions leak from many holes anyway.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 17:00:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 12:00:56 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD78J-0001TV-Sk for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:00:56 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f44.google.com ([209.85.218.44]:37733) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <raaahh@HIDDEN>) id 1pD78G-0001TE-Mi for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:00:53 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f44.google.com with SMTP id ud5so84227566ejc.4 for <60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KrhemSZibPzYsemtfnsyd7hn7f5dVvDLkv7HvRTe6zQ=; b=hgYonzx+w087WZ7vsl5biHkYZMbkxi1JsOcARBaq2CONewRPiY9bxFyx+gdQBpgT9Q Oa2tXJ8RPS7jssO845BzAcySS93F5xXdC+AkrZ+DFrq9BZiq6z6J5vKcsFWLZYZtBq7f RkMLvg2sGRZTmVqUX3uspSQ4ffBl+4nIO2fOxpYuB/mblbyRSuGcWDZLA6g3c6Mkzs09 77cNnvdbhpJyBHi4YDLWQCWDHMsG9/W8cnEtv29BoCQhZy/u5eS78XoNyysWG1B/Z6U+ qMRG5gUHAyTonnshJ3FaH8ZXIRophFDaX0GENUmSUSQrI9NUHnfzguJNjpBOIX8ejUwY MqOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=KrhemSZibPzYsemtfnsyd7hn7f5dVvDLkv7HvRTe6zQ=; b=ldyEZe2RYAEK2vx92MMNAcmSGI5gfm0J6EjGVSz2v3MZKRn0LCTa3eKt1FSbgZt+sQ 9U9Go4eyzWcwMPyHFQjMHw3I/n8+lA0n+f6YTFxShBl3neHyJ7E33QcXbfdBVH/2rSE+ sOBkjoYhRIVmIOQeOHCA/1BdqRB/bCTMbV50W7sCg/eSowROs/vqTdfGy3FE1ly33OoG /p7/2I0/SuYZpTS+VRQMSUQPBjqyHVvLOEnoxE80fB6d7SqqeXP4hjbE0umMPye0wRuk uOVWButRF4aFV1Gfrc2/AQMc96Mszu6vcQKiaTRIiPLkaT304etMaMte6kIWGhMOnamQ AXrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krUxLDMZk35LA842+FTk5JKx27cN9w1ovqqzrrTF8NqpRmyziur OvYUnLThaQlK2sMDiJ45bsk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXufTZ/oDUCnfmluB2flePIZYTMqVb9o7OD50zyzZkihsz6hJIbHiczisCbCO7dMwMQzoQlyyw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:c717:b0:7c1:ad6:638a with SMTP id ty23-20020a170907c71700b007c10ad6638amr44660559ejc.17.1672851646682; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j1-20020a17090623e100b00770812e2394sm15311072ejg.160.2023.01.04.09.00.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:00:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <b541270c-dfaf-c8b5-e923-be961ca5529d@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200 >> Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN >> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> >> >> On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives. It is >>> notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so >>> expecting users to do the above is not very friendly. >> >> It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble >> over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC >> binding in my init script. > > I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior. Stefan proposed > at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing > behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come > very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop > short of breaking someone's muscle memory. The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think many users expect. Especially novices. The second alternative is even more involved, requiring 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start to make this choice.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 14:47:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 09:47:33 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48054 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD53F-0005tL-8h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:47:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50660) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD53D-0005t9-Ih for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:47:32 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD537-0003CT-Ff; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:47:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cY9kyxp7iGynmVwA2dQXhAuwB8YiWUveLZERI2EVXZA=; b=ZN8ZI5Mt67Cw OYm7jMQGVslKFntnJCza0+/BEf1HQbSdoKe6KhoZsWeSacAPgnCxc546BaFqzQbNSANfFwEXNKkJK 1p7fFIJSAXlLEPgT3QuFiYE5tLHhrJYe2IPH/5+4+Iteub6RMT6DRE9a1wKQvNeD/MiNl3HfvMIOj 4voWdINXH5ldDMxTmoN2ulyMJiwFZRw8nInuAEb7+cr2J7N205msBZkx3BuNfHfT1edao8Zf8SBsl v/sD+LdZuizYhyzPh9u2NgyuA/zl3KI1bZFAiWR6guPIGz8PBgv5TDJwNd7EzGduljKABoz1XI3mS oyu3zS6jE60G6WMhv2PqWA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pD536-00025J-SH; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 09:47:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 16:47:37 +0200 Message-Id: <83h6x6z792.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200 > Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> > > On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives. It is > > notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so > > expecting users to do the above is not very friendly. > > It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble > over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC > binding in my init script. I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior. Stefan proposed at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop short of breaking someone's muscle memory. > Those those dislike the change, however, will read the necessary > invocation in NEWS. I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who read NEWS, even when they have some reason to look up a specific change there.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 12:05:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 07:05:49 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pD2Wi-0007xI-O3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 07:05:48 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f54.google.com ([209.85.218.54]:37423) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <raaahh@HIDDEN>) id 1pD2Wg-0007x5-Gh for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 07:05:46 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f54.google.com with SMTP id ud5so82135841ejc.4 for <60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:05:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Kb/fLHeg54IbRXRDnBDJ9UOltnYNUgMn6HaaZ8795kM=; b=ERYFNrxjvrzpMQszeJ76/jUjem9LFV5DFY4hp/q26HcEaLoN16Uhye0qQdr5bzPpFH tlcPJKxwjRRaFv2nOqer5GSquceuf3zi+vrbGFMLhIBws7PdiwR0eWhaoIyKIRjL2TQK aRQ+xDrLeg4GG/sH5GaDo8a7/5yBOs20RPzq0dhlPdSUVSSTdo/IWna6sVt+YskZhcrt G6QSMJilLCbesMD6BnNKcELnnLdV8g+5Nz7z13+/g8FOg3M4iHEDPRg6VS+u8F/A2BKF vdMFwTrbomhHz10Ui2mx+1zZdgFwR529mZZ1KgNshD1GxQrR3kbGT+qUYNRab+hO4LWX 7GJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Kb/fLHeg54IbRXRDnBDJ9UOltnYNUgMn6HaaZ8795kM=; b=F7Uri2W6Uh7jM46CW72V/FImONsWVs8+DAaAM0ugxIIJn21fn4AH/o70dZGyT/SZn5 8NwKQWSZkYGZ96DoH4UhCbKSbRoVfj0o5iVAKdy2GRA9WuvEGPsmWZYRubM+tHKARMZb MI5VQluF0o+LAdL6KCnkcZtCbC4YxydiFDu9nU5A1wBIL/pwi8mFfm+L/baQvFDph++l MrJrPP4fhDpbo+omRWNft9B6PYUkgvPMvEa6wGvuEseiSUOxWM0WStUkCyhT7oYQseMs J4lq8A95f2yhQHNHAx6JA2m6KgJwfiG+NLVK4DIpYGl6I5seM592r3zA4OTPEqGjF7jH u+Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krvCja8BiYC/IFB3XZvqaeFVJ/+E70lLmp+XxB/5XvmrwEgq1vM vbW9SuecxW1IWvxZLNSFfZA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXueb17WChFXdLg8PS762g45Bxeb9ufqvtfSWF2zPGsw81jUt2gHiq/nZa5hXyX4pagHk6yjxA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:22d2:b0:7fc:3787:243d with SMTP id q18-20020a17090622d200b007fc3787243dmr43192956eja.53.1672833940521; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m9-20020a1709062ac900b007c0d41736c0sm15152716eje.39.2023.01.04.04.05.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:05:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives. It is > notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so > expecting users to do the above is not very friendly. It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC binding in my init script. Those those dislike the change, however, will read the necessary invocation in NEWS.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 07:09:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 04 02:09:13 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pCxtg-0003jq-S4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 02:09:13 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:42678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>) id 1pCxte-0003ja-HT for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 02:09:11 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id t15so23177772wro.9 for <60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 23:09:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ukqJGRL1vDympwuWJbyYDgx9w2vUVYYKUS1w1fnG5Sw=; b=JaTWPBLRQruWhFNkPC5QcaH4OgALnjj+Q+NoGNoxa88MJ2SRaHF2o/PZWnvJBduL9o WxJR7KbFeSp5pG9IEx5s26YDoEBxrAWaJ+jJuODYMGJZpfATvRLzM8rVuU6Aes55R8sp hzsUk6DU9SnVkVXUBt6A+Qam7FFVojNFm03RA+3FT/xzR2uz6oKh9QVXRQAIf1KTxhY4 JR72TJs86fn+gRSzhtrxJpMNIqdihIMxfvPVd5TcK/DvFXEyLU7v7UWAkDFX2j6CRREW tLrmvmKfMc6mykSfjEdOtEG9tEg6W06WHcW7upsiZMfXJxkNZ2JL4lgApk618VR/ljFz 4q5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ukqJGRL1vDympwuWJbyYDgx9w2vUVYYKUS1w1fnG5Sw=; b=yv9F09YTGVqhsRUzIdr07TdaC4hNUbJka7M/JuzuYp9is0f8jFEjb7EV6SENsCBs0R 4ByWppjlPRnU3sYi5435RryGJl5fleTA4+dbt1SHXDqrScVCXOpwZU0eZi+YTd7mj7QW moFeVRSWPwdAeqXq+35DzhJpvZuwML03JKpsBsH8dV2NhduAe7JwKl0PQwWzT2/qxcRd fnGrpOi8yQy+s0wvzhv8TIZdFnT2ba5ec0VYzCq/f8ghQVc4K/CndLkUav9lfPNOvcJR jrTTY24WsZHP0LYITpLmHgrrG2TTd9Ogie6R0k4jGek3p1X130leQF/0rhpu3GIj7IZd DfvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kp0apRPUbCZy1BiVxcU8Z23rUeUMFhZW6OQWcLoEgrEtSVsjz5h a3TEptlJj2Hzi5J8rvO7i62fetqbr08= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvA1ExJLT5uXlYe3koMHwHrcpaEozlZATtlF3dC26FcaKVkIF7J758k0Kw9MeJnm6M99ufTGg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:610a:0:b0:27a:cc74:977d with SMTP id v10-20020a5d610a000000b0027acc74977dmr20840985wrt.4.1672816144521; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 23:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:253:fe0:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d11-20020adffd8b000000b00236545edc91sm32874691wrr.76.2023.01.03.23.09.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 03 Jan 2023 23:09:04 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN> To: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion In-Reply-To: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier via's message of "Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:17 -0500") References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 08:09:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87bkne22uo.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes: > Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate > that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character > for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then > use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`). Thinking out loud, not sure how reasonable that idea is: something akin to the *-completion-ignore-case options? E.g. *-completion-literal-spc? (Or *-completion-literal-keys) > Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users > enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either > telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because > the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook` > workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session, > which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else > than `minibuffer-complete-word`. With the suggestion above, packages could define their own *-completion-whatever-its-named option, that may default to letting SPC self-insert; like ebdb defining its own ebdb-completion-ignore-case that defaults to t. Users could then set those options, and possibly set a bare defvar =C3=A0 la completion-ignore-case for those who feel very strongly that SPC has no business completing. (Full disclosure: I find SPC completion somewhat useful, especially for Lisp symbols, because pounding on SPC is much, much easier than reaching for hyphens on AZERTY)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 03:29:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 03 22:29:20 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47245 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pCuSt-0005yL-NU for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:29:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pCuSr-0005y6-Ed for 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:29:18 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pCuSl-0001Jd-9D; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:29:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YffhOLD46PhDgZRVa5Op8k5HAkgoih/gUg64w4wEnAg=; b=MrVbgDC0sl/E /XbbxRNvT/UJY8xcGX3dEbs8sNZcnKs7CMVmw3HXe8pJbIBrVa0AYfCpxtzqcgbldJQ+jDN7/72Xi QlHFbZHQ6t9BK5Im7PAfIguWas+LWv61qgnmkRxEh3la99M2lxSIxVbI0nyHgKzMNKfDa/xxLcLd5 X7ycFvgcS5SFdtMzqyDkhgMks+So9BhTyKpxToIaJiUK2y3FWoUqRGn1trdA28otlco6xoLZBMIbb d66i+Sg4625eUihzr7AhxBilwSAAVmxjq/y8pGcgalf3il2CCFxGXXWQbnFcu9y2bPTSoPmf68h8Z 4bzFm3dWwuLliYTazoAHfQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pCuSk-0005km-8M; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 22:29:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:29:19 +0200 Message-Id: <83r0wbyo34.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 4 Jan 2023 00:50:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion References: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 Cc: 60527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 00:50:10 +0200 > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> > > On 03/01/2023 21:05, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the > Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: > > So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding. > > Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of > > Emacs) could easily get it back with: > > > > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map > > " " 'minibuffer-complete-word) > > Yes, please. My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives. It is notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so expecting users to do the above is not very friendly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8790a3fd-a891-45c8-80ea-08daedc72f8f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Jan 2023 20:14:57.8242 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: hKFka5infZ3tpWUVnZjH92VhnIcw3+5OedppvU5fQmEHXmZtHiSxCPVdfPXSblNfOMitftZuHOcdzdyMbA7g5g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR10MB4518 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.923,Hydra:6.0.545,FMLib:17.11.122.1 definitions=2023-01-03_07,2023-01-03_02,2022-06-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2212070000 definitions=main-2301030172 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 0amTXHGaYV7Zh6sR1Dk5kP6xWgF9gd8y X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 0amTXHGaYV7Zh6sR1Dk5kP6xWgF9gd8y X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60527 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it > makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion. Finally. Bravo - bonne initiative ! > Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the > things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names, > which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names), > but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the > use of a SPC character to specify how to select the > completion candidates. >=20 > So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding. > Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of > Emacs) could easily get it back with: >=20 > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map > " " 'minibuffer-complete-word) >=20 > Another option is to change `minibuffer-complete-word` so that instead > of beeping "No match", it inserts a SPC when there's no completion and > `require-match` is nil (after checking that the command was invoked via > SPC). >=20 > Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate > that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character > for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then > use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`). >=20 > Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users > enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either > telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because > the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook` > workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session, > which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else > than `minibuffer-complete-word`. > Both of those options are undesirable, IMO. We should instead improve > the defaults to make such recommendations and workarounds unnecessary. FWIW, Icicles removes `SPC' for word completion by default (since 2005, i.e., nearly the beginning). It puts word completion on a different key (`M-SPC', by default). ____ icicle-word-completion-keys is a variable defined in `icicles-opt.el'. Its value is ([(meta 32)]) Documentation: Key sequences to use for minibuffer prefix word completion. A list of values that each has the same form as a key-sequence argument to `define-key'. It is a list mainly in order to accommodate different keyboards. Because file names, in particular, can contain spaces, some people prefer such a key sequence to be non-printable, such as `M-SPC'. This is the default value in Icicles. But because the spacebar is such a convenient key to hit, other people prefer to use `SPC' for word completion, and to insert a space some other way. The usual way to do that is via `C-q SPC', but command `icicle-insert-a-space' is provided for convenience. You can bind this to `M-SPC', for instance, in `minibuffer-local-completion-map', `minibuffer-local-completion-map', and `minibuffer-local-must-match-map'. You can customize this variable. ____
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2023 19:05:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 03 14:05:54 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46703 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pCmbg-0006T0-QF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:54 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:37554) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1pCmbc-0006Sn-1v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1pCmbY-0000ME-OX for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:45 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1pCmbU-0005Vu-6K for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:44 -0500 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 85FF2441A77 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 14:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id EA75B440704 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 14:05:29 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1672772729; bh=o/04q6XzJzuWVqQxdlmiQrRJit3iQO2wCrXuoCoTJo0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=CvxejkH64LykSTHrDsrKrGy0L3ROy2MRGAKodL0RW+5z2jEsbOxxzkxxZ9ILsbtpF 2oJY+2gxTN4xItzd7ca1A4PNhC8CJH81QI6XMEX4g1w5Krp+d5Nf4q+6mMlsWB2fRX Cw9+ninJa7A7x0xjM7x6ppDM5aghEjEya/Ye+SdLd3WGqzRAL3wQj5PEtu13Wnc1Cp PlN/dPQOttkPv1clGazlLYFvaFJq8JvcUTJpCjOWhF4kZeMoxjNv5SNDt6sUQrYnLB YxsP3fi9SegUj3Dzmsql3/B8/wzmUwvcRWgJv7y4DCqf9HDGoHFX8id6Qa6CUn1pty w2IgtLkfGRizA== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.200.228]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6C7F12019B for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 14:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:05:17 -0500 Message-ID: <jwva62za176.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.317 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@HIDDEN; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Package: Emacs Version: 30.0.50 I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion. Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names, which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names), but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the use of a SPC character to specify how to select the completion candidates. So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding. Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of Emacs) could easily get it back with: (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map " " 'minibuffer-complete-word) Another option is to change `minibuffer-complete-word` so that instead of beeping "No match", it inserts a SPC when there's no completion and `require-match` is nil (after checking that the command was invoked via SPC). Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`). Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook` workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session, which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else than `minibuffer-complete-word`. Both of those options are undesirable, IMO. We should instead improve the defaults to make such recommendations and workarounds unnecessary. Stefan In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2023-01-01 built on pastel Repository revision: a1dce171667209f9dc5b63fd1cf9a067d8ab419a Repository branch: work Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) Configured using: 'configure -C --enable-checking --enable-check-lisp-object-type --with-modules --with-cairo --with-tiff=ifavailable 'CFLAGS=-Wall -g3 -Og -Wno-pointer-sign' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/home/monnier/lib/pkgconfig' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XAW3D XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM LUCID ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: fr_CH.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: InactiveMinibuffer Minor modes in effect: server-mode: t electric-pair-mode: t 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hook-helpers-autoloads other-frame-window-autoloads company-ebdb-autoloads info ebdb-autoloads company-autoloads assess-autoloads m-buffer-autoloads seq-autoloads ivy-avy-autoloads avy-autoloads ivy-autoloads corfu-doc-autoloads corfu-autoloads posframe-autoloads filladapt-autoloads svg-lib-autoloads metar-autoloads cl-lib-autoloads lv-autoloads embark-consult-autoloads consult-autoloads compat-autoloads nadvice-autoloads embark-autoloads windresize-autoloads ess-autoloads ustar-withsub-autoloads rudel-autoloads rudel-backend warnings icons package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source eieio eieio-core cl-macs gv pcase password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray button loaddefs theme-loaddefs oclosure cl-preloaded faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 446004 226855) (symbols 48 32264 176) (strings 32 139470 29573) (string-bytes 1 4602266) (vectors 16 70511) (vector-slots 8 1801395 281279) (floats 8 514 350) (intervals 56 20148 0) (buffers 984 43))
Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#60527
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.