Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cdd0c2f440e72109afda6bc3c8e9f610; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:01:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable In-Reply-To: <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN> (Jim Porter's message of "Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:15 -0700") References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN> <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 10:01:45 +0800 Message-ID: <871qlo3zli.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21311 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1223 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170 Cc: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>, 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes: > Agreed. I think a good general guideline is this: for icons which are > always in the same spot (e.g. the navigation buttons in your web > browser), color probably isn't that valuable, and possibly a > distraction. As a user, you'll quickly internalize where, say, the > back button is anyway. FWIW, I typically use the keyboard to navigate in a web browser, because Mozilla keeps changing the location of their navigation buttons. For example, the Home button used to be to the right of the Search box, but now it is to the right of the Reload button. > Still, I think I agree with the overall request: the current icons > could use some improvement, partly just to make sure they all feel > like they belong together. [...] > (This is worse on GTK builds, where some icons come from GTK and have > one visual style, but others come from Emacs and look totally > different.) This is mainly the fault of the GNOME developers: they keep changing their default icon theme, so now Emacs's icons (mostly imported from GNOME) are no longer consistent with the rest of the system. Perhaps we could re-import icons from the GNOME icon theme? The non-symbolic ones, of course.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
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[76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z31-20020a17090a6d2200b001fde655225fsm7675254pjj.2.2023.03.16.12.36.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable Content-Language: en-US To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170 Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 3/13/2023 5:52 PM, Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: > Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes: >> Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace >> them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have >> mass appeal. But maybe there are people who really like the current >> icons and would be upset about that? > > I do. Every supposedly ``modern'' set of icons proposed lacks color > contrast, making them indistinguishable from each other. Agreed. I think a good general guideline is this: for icons which are always in the same spot (e.g. the navigation buttons in your web browser), color probably isn't that valuable, and possibly a distraction. As a user, you'll quickly internalize where, say, the back button is anyway. However, Emacs toolbars change according to the mode of the active buffer, so they're likely to change many times in a session. Here, some color is very useful for letting you tell at a glance what all the buttons are. Still, I think I agree with the overall request: the current icons could use some improvement, partly just to make sure they all feel like they belong together. (This is worse on GTK builds, where some icons come from GTK and have one visual style, but others come from Emacs and look totally different.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Mar 2023 16:09:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 15 12:09:11 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pcTgc-00011m-Rc for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:09:11 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:43081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1pcTgb-00011V-9u for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:09:10 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38487240572 for <62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:09:03 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1678896543; bh=/psSwRV81LzWrf1AsAC9eJ4okhYKZG+OqQORhOR1wl4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=oNvegvrx0XuA1tJmHxWzsn6M0fdwG2PNziejucD/YOnlv59PE+j3pP3CSAxH47F0P Sgozov+SDqlelsIYRZTyvK0ZE4GJZQIFGUHiLe3s9MizVoD88fezEOOsIRIG7ta7MZ cOKFnVJ5Izm1nGpze7YPy05vUzxmVV+QbyVQvpIs/FHpsezOh17hJspkgc0V8fKnLe bDohb3UFzE0JH9vUNZygeRKqksYyYXMno1FGah0t8dr6Rlx3qWrV4DRjzG9v7RL0hL Fwahdj/2ufYIs8GmIJ9K/D+e5DhSqmT40HJSJtR82E1wbuR0RYEu1RSe0htHoNmd3C Wd2C7b6HPr7mQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PcFgy3Vjjz6tmN; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:09:02 +0100 (CET) From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> (Spencer Baugh's message of "Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400") References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:09:26 +0000 Message-ID: <871qlqj8sp.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170 Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes: > 1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10 > years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets. > 2. Point out the tool bar > 3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face > 4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable > tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's > so ugly to them. What Icons are we talking about? I am using the PGTK build, and they look just like the icons any other GTK would use. Sure, it differ from GNOME where the icons are part of the window bar, but that is a different issue.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Mar 2023 12:43:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 14 08:43:52 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pc40O-0002zA-5b for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43422) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pc40M-0002yy-Ff for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pc40G-0007ul-WC; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=dxFiAHhuGmoFBBStG+4Gx/OHUoLgAoj+UZ0YwEfIJt8=; b=blowA3goxQjQ IhnrCab/F1kzo34W8Clpiy+Z2DOzWivNyKfL0QtNNLn4j8KPv+8AoHVDZ39anXn8xLcAoTETLQzPm BQbLCG6z3vo52AxFMNDZ71IKH+Np4cSrSnt9LhLW38X0oNzj6711/4NpKKfOfgUBuwJvAb125JtiF koZZNvawRnivMb/dGvnjbYdv0VRkG6Y59RnyPUml87GGVb48Yfend18NP7RqjZ0saf7HG74l7BvVN tpjHwotumbNSMymm3Gotx897PZTOAOkPvz6ASd/XiHabET3mIubLuF2n5hFDMWvWeeLdGW2aOamzm rsCLPcb2vbOsyRSjM38zGg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pc40G-0001Ec-AD; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:43:37 +0200 Message-Id: <83r0trsdty.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Spencer Baugh on Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170 Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400 > > Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used > for a tool bar. But it already _is_ possible. You "just" need to find somewhere the icons you like, call their files by the names Emacs expects (for example, "new.FOO" for the find-file button, where FOO is an image extension supported by Emacs), then put them in some directory, and make sure that directory is in image-load-path before the image directories installed by "make install". Alternatively, you can use in your init files functions from tool-bar.el, such as tool-bar-add-item-from-menu, to override the default image names used for the buttons; then Emacs will look for other images. > Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace > them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have > mass appeal. We replaced our icons a couple of times on the past. We can do that again, if better icons are available. The difficulty is that for us to distribute an icon it must be under a Free license. So either we have someone on board who could create beautiful icons as part of his/her work on Emacs, or we find icons produced by someone else which are distributed under a Free license and import them. IOW, there's no problem with your proposal except coming up with better icons we can include in our release tarballs. It's not like we are wedded to the current ones or consider them to be the best inventions since sliced bread.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4ab177a0a8f248bf0f8def6f958899ce; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 00:52:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> (Spencer Baugh's message of "Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400") References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:52:50 +0800 Message-ID: <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21284 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1553 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170 Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes: > 1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10 > years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets. > 2. Point out the tool bar > 3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face > 4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable > tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's > so ugly to them. Curiously enough, I didn't see that response when I demonstrated Emacs to a very respectable group of developers who were long time users of MS Visual Studio... Instead of ``spent the last 10 years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets'', how about ``18 year olds who have never used anything other than a web browser and a smartphone in their life?'' > Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used > for a tool bar. Then people could contribute new icon themes which > don't clash with modern design aesthetics, and eventually one or more > such icon themes could be adopted into Emacs, and perhaps one could > even be made the new default icon theme. Stefan Kangas was working on that. > Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace > them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have > mass appeal. But maybe there are people who really like the current > icons and would be upset about that? I do. Every supposedly ``modern'' set of icons proposed lacks color contrast, making them indistinguishable from each other.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2023 20:16:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 13 16:16:50 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35675 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pbobA-0004Qn-Qe for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:50 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>) id 1pbob7-0004Qd-3u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>) id 1pbob6-0000OZ-Rd for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:44 -0400 Received: from mxout5.mail.janestreet.com ([64.215.233.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>) id 1pbob3-0006vC-Dc for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:44 -0400 From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.215.233.18; envelope-from=sbaugh@HIDDEN; helo=mxout5.mail.janestreet.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) 1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10 years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets. 2. Point out the tool bar 3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face 4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's so ugly to them. Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used for a tool bar. Then people could contribute new icon themes which don't clash with modern design aesthetics, and eventually one or more such icon themes could be adopted into Emacs, and perhaps one could even be made the new default icon theme. Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have mass appeal. But maybe there are people who really like the current icons and would be upset about that? In GNU Emacs 29.0.60 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.15.12, Xaw scroll bars) of 2023-03-13 built on igm-qws-u22796a Repository revision: e759905d2e0828eac4c8164b09113b40f6899656 Repository branch: emacs-29 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000 System Description: CentOS Linux 7 (Core) Configured using: 'configure --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-modules --with-gif=ifavailable' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM LUCID ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Eshell Minor modes in effect: eshell-prompt-mode: t eshell-hist-mode: t eshell-pred-mode: t eshell-cmpl-mode: t eshell-proc-mode: t eshell-arg-mode: t which-function-mode: t global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t 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lui-format lui tracking shorten help-mode flyspell ispell circe-compat org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-src ob-comint org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-footnote org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline icons ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs org-version org-compat org-macs format-spec gdb-mi bindat gud easy-mmode comint ansi-osc ansi-color ring cyberpunk-theme ffap thingatpt savehist saveplace finder-inf rx info package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 1504415 111904) (symbols 48 53054 1) (strings 32 228790 20016) (string-bytes 1 27315748) (vectors 16 113251) (vector-slots 8 1665931 316200) (floats 8 1475 1306) (intervals 56 132917 1104) (buffers 976 94) (heap 1024 711495 253634))
Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#62170; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.