GNU logs - #68453, boring messages

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Subject: [bug#68453] [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC Services section.
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* doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
`display-number`. Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
examples.

Change-Id: Iea96f75d344636977416a052c7ffc4310536be27
---
 doc/guix.texi | 28 +++++++++++++++++++++-------
 1 file changed, 21 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi
index 811edd0bf7..154a7a7465 100644
--- a/doc/guix.texi
+++ b/doc/guix.texi
@@ -33099,18 +33099,31 @@ VNC Services
 
 @lisp
 (service xvnc-service-type
-         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 10)))
+         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 5)))
 @end lisp
 
 As a demonstration, the @command{xclock} command could then be started
 on the remote machine on display number 10, and it could be displayed
-locally via the @command{vncviewer} command:
+locally using the SSH tunneling mechanism, via the @command{vncviewer}
+command:
 @example
-# Start xclock on the remote machine.
-ssh -L5910:localhost:5910 @var{your-host} -- guix shell xclock \
-    -- env DISPLAY=:10 xclock
-# Access it via VNC.
-guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:5910
+## Start xclock on the remote machine.
+default_vnc_port=5900
+display_port=@var{display-number}
+
+# SSH (t)unnel (i)nterface on the (r)emote machine.
+tri=localhost
+# SSH (t)unnel (r)emote (p)ort.
+trp=$[$default_vnc_port + $display_port]
+# SSH (t)unnel (l)ocal (p)ort.
+tlp=$[$trp + 1]
+
+ssh -L$tlp:$tri:$trp @var{your-host} -- \
+       guix shell xclock -- \
+       env DISPLAY=:$display_port xclock
+
+## Access xclock via VNC.
+guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:$tlp
 @end example
 
 The following configuration combines XDMCP and Inetd to allow multiple
@@ -33138,6 +33151,7 @@ VNC Services
 command or a compatible VNC client and start a desktop session of their
 choosing:
 @example
+# 5905 = default VNC port + @var{display-number} specified above
 vncviewer remote-host:5905
 @end example
 

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* doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
`display-number`. Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
examples.

Change-Id: Iea96f75d344636977416a052c7ffc4310536be27
---
 doc/guix.texi | 28 +++++++++++++++++++++-------
 1 file changed, 21 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi
index 811edd0bf7..154a7a7465 100644
--- a/doc/guix.texi
+++ b/doc/guix.texi
@@ -33099,18 +33099,31 @@ VNC Services
 
 @lisp
 (service xvnc-service-type
-         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 10)))
+         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 5)))
 @end lisp
 
 As a demonstration, the @command{xclock} command could then be started
 on the remote machine on display number 10, and it could be displayed
-locally via the @command{vncviewer} command:
+locally using the SSH tunneling mechanism, via the @command{vncviewer}
+command:
 @example
-# Start xclock on the remote machine.
-ssh -L5910:localhost:5910 @var{your-host} -- guix shell xclock \
-    -- env DISPLAY=:10 xclock
-# Access it via VNC.
-guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:5910
+## Start xclock on the remote machine.
+default_vnc_port=5900
+display_port=@var{display-number}
+
+# SSH (t)unnel (i)nterface on the (r)emote machine.
+tri=localhost
+# SSH (t)unnel (r)emote (p)ort.
+trp=$[$default_vnc_port + $display_port]
+# SSH (t)unnel (l)ocal (p)ort.
+tlp=$[$trp + 1]
+
+ssh -L$tlp:$tri:$trp @var{your-host} -- \
+       guix shell xclock -- \
+       env DISPLAY=:$display_port xclock
+
+## Access xclock via VNC.
+guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:$tlp
 @end example
 
 The following configuration combines XDMCP and Inetd to allow multiple
@@ -33138,6 +33151,7 @@ VNC Services
 command or a compatible VNC client and start a desktop session of their
 choosing:
 @example
+# 5905 = default VNC port + @var{display-number} specified above
 vncviewer remote-host:5905
 @end example
 

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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
To: Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#68453: [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC Services section.
In-Reply-To: <02eca65c1e52c2f069c15ae90fa2044f818b4e4b.1705249865.git.Rostislav.Svoboda@HIDDEN>
 (Rostislav Svoboda's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:31:30 +0100")
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Hi,

Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@HIDDEN> writes:

> * doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
> `display-number`.

Do you mean 5905 is supposed to be the default value?  It's not (the
default display number is 0), or at least that's the convention to have
the VNC server listen on the usual 5900 port.

> Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
> examples.

I've looked at the modified examples, but I think your proposed changes
make things look more complicated, which is beside the point of
providing easy to read/trivial examples.

I'll now close this issue.

-- 
Thanks,
Maxim


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Subject: bug#68453: closed (Re: bug#68453: [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC
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Your bug report

#68453: [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC Services section.

which was filed against the guix-patches package, has been closed.

The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
If you require more details, please reply to 68453 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

--=20
68453: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D68453
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
To: Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#68453: [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC Services section.
In-Reply-To: <02eca65c1e52c2f069c15ae90fa2044f818b4e4b.1705249865.git.Rostislav.Svoboda@HIDDEN>
 (Rostislav Svoboda's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:31:30 +0100")
References: <02eca65c1e52c2f069c15ae90fa2044f818b4e4b.1705249865.git.Rostislav.Svoboda@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 10:55:31 +0900
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Hi,

Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@HIDDEN> writes:

> * doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
> `display-number`.

Do you mean 5905 is supposed to be the default value?  It's not (the
default display number is 0), or at least that's the convention to have
the VNC server listen on the usual 5900 port.

> Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
> examples.

I've looked at the modified examples, but I think your proposed changes
make things look more complicated, which is beside the point of
providing easy to read/trivial examples.

I'll now close this issue.

-- 
Thanks,
Maxim


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* doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
`display-number`. Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
examples.

Change-Id: Iea96f75d344636977416a052c7ffc4310536be27
---
 doc/guix.texi | 28 +++++++++++++++++++++-------
 1 file changed, 21 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/guix.texi b/doc/guix.texi
index 811edd0bf7..154a7a7465 100644
--- a/doc/guix.texi
+++ b/doc/guix.texi
@@ -33099,18 +33099,31 @@ VNC Services
 
 @lisp
 (service xvnc-service-type
-         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 10)))
+         (xvnc-configuration (display-number 5)))
 @end lisp
 
 As a demonstration, the @command{xclock} command could then be started
 on the remote machine on display number 10, and it could be displayed
-locally via the @command{vncviewer} command:
+locally using the SSH tunneling mechanism, via the @command{vncviewer}
+command:
 @example
-# Start xclock on the remote machine.
-ssh -L5910:localhost:5910 @var{your-host} -- guix shell xclock \
-    -- env DISPLAY=:10 xclock
-# Access it via VNC.
-guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:5910
+## Start xclock on the remote machine.
+default_vnc_port=5900
+display_port=@var{display-number}
+
+# SSH (t)unnel (i)nterface on the (r)emote machine.
+tri=localhost
+# SSH (t)unnel (r)emote (p)ort.
+trp=$[$default_vnc_port + $display_port]
+# SSH (t)unnel (l)ocal (p)ort.
+tlp=$[$trp + 1]
+
+ssh -L$tlp:$tri:$trp @var{your-host} -- \
+       guix shell xclock -- \
+       env DISPLAY=:$display_port xclock
+
+## Access xclock via VNC.
+guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:$tlp
 @end example
 
 The following configuration combines XDMCP and Inetd to allow multiple
@@ -33138,6 +33151,7 @@ VNC Services
 command or a compatible VNC client and start a desktop session of their
 choosing:
 @example
+# 5905 = default VNC port + @var{display-number} specified above
 vncviewer remote-host:5905
 @end example
 

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-- 
2.41.0




------------=_1738979762-10479-1--

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Hello Maxim,

> > * doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
> > `display-number`.
>
> Do you mean 5905 is supposed to be the default value?  It's not (the
> default display number is 0), or at least that's the convention to have
> the VNC server listen on the usual 5900 port.

I meant that at one place we have (display-number 10), and then about
15 lines below, we have (display-number 5). That=E2=80=99s inconsistent!
The same applies to the port numbers: 5910 vs. 5905.

> > Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
> > examples.
>
> I've looked at the modified examples, but I think your proposed changes
> make things look more complicated, which is beside the point of
> providing easy to read/trivial examples.

You may not find my examples useful, but that doesn't convince me that
the existing ones are easy to read or trivial.

The reason I took the time to modify this part of documentation and
submit a patch is precisely because I found the current examples not
easy to understand.

> I'll now close this issue.

Could you please reopen this issue? I believe the inconsistency and
readability concerns I raised are still unresolved.

Cheers,
Bost

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Subject: [bug#68453] closed (Re: bug#68453: [PATCH] doc: Improve VNC Services section.)
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reopen 68453
quit

+CC guix-devel to sollicit more input

Hi,

Rostislav Svoboda <rostislav.svoboda@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello Maxim,
>
>> > * doc/guix.texi (VNC Services): Don't change the value of
>> > `display-number`.
>>
>> Do you mean 5905 is supposed to be the default value?  It's not (the
>> default display number is 0), or at least that's the convention to have
>> the VNC server listen on the usual 5900 port.

> I meant that at one place we have (display-number 10), and then about
> 15 lines below, we have (display-number 5). That=E2=80=99s inconsistent!
> The same applies to the port numbers: 5910 vs. 5905.

Is it a problem to show the use of different ports between examples?  My
intent was to showcase the relationship between the display number used
and the corresponding port, without going through the gnarly details of
'man vncviewer'.

>> > Refine and improve the `xclock` and `vncviewer` invocation
>> > examples.
>>
>> I've looked at the modified examples, but I think your proposed changes
>> make things look more complicated, which is beside the point of
>> providing easy to read/trivial examples.
>
> You may not find my examples useful, but that doesn't convince me that
> the existing ones are easy to read or trivial.
>
> The reason I took the time to modify this part of documentation and
> submit a patch is precisely because I found the current examples not
> easy to understand.
>
>> I'll now close this issue.
>
> Could you please reopen this issue? I believe the inconsistency and
> readability concerns I raised are still unresolved.

OK.  Perhaps I acted too quickly.  I'm also biased as I wrote these very
examples.  But in my opinion, turning these small, directly
copy/pastable command snippets into a more complex shell script means
the users have more to read and understand, on topics related but not
meant to be the focus of these examples (SSH tunneling).

I'll reopen and give it a week or two for guix-devel neutral readers to
provide feedback on the change.

At any rate, thank you for your efforts trying to improve our
documentation.

--=20
Thanks,
Maxim

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Hello Maxim,

Thank you for reopening the issue.

> > I meant that at one place we have (display-number 10), and then about
> > 15 lines below, we have (display-number 5). That=E2=80=99s inconsistent=
!
> > The same applies to the port numbers: 5910 vs. 5905.
>
> Is it a problem to show the use of different ports between examples?  My
> intent was to showcase the relationship between the display number used
> and the corresponding port, without going through the gnarly details of
> 'man vncviewer'.

It's not a problem in the sense that "it won't work," but it is an
inconsistency.

Using different values makes the reader wonder: Why are they
different? It creates unnecessary cognitive load. It's like reading a
math paper where a variable is suddenly renamed for no clear reason -
it forces extra effort to check if the change matters or not.

Keeping the values consistent avoids this distraction and helps
readers focus on the actual concept.

------

Regarding the example:

Trivial, easy-to-read examples are, of course, preferred. However,
this principle becomes counterproductive if the example (for some
reason) doesn't work or leaves the reader confused.

Virtual Network Computing isn't trivial, and SSH tunneling even less
so. There's plenty of room for confusion, especially for users
unfamiliar with SSH tunneling. Someone unfamiliar with SSH tunneling
will likely ask: "Why is ssh here?". The surrounding description
provides no context.

Such a user might then spend over an hour trying to grasp SSH
tunneling, stumbling across various visual guides and memory aids
like:
  https://iximiuz.com/en/posts/ssh-tunnels/
  https://hackertarget.com/ssh-examples-tunnels/

My extension to the example addresses this issue. Here, using
different port numbers _has_ a purpose - it clarifies what is "local"
and what is "remote," helping the reader form a clear mental model.
See for yourself:

Definitions:
```
# SSH (t)unnel (i)nterface on the (r)emote machine.
tri=3Dlocalhost
# SSH (t)unnel (r)emote (p)ort.
trp=3D$[$default_vnc_port + $display_port]
# SSH (t)unnel (l)ocal (p)ort.
tlp=3D$[$trp + 1]
```

Usage:
```
ssh -L$tlp:$tri:$trp ...

guix shell tigervnc-client -- vncviewer localhost:$tlp
```

Cheers,
Bost

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Hi Rostislav Svoboda

I like how it is now more in my opinion. 
Your sugestion is harder to understand in my opinion.

Thanks,
Bruno

Last modified: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 16:45:01 UTC

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