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Subject: bug#72024: documentation suggestion: make old versions of docs easily available
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Thread-Topic: documentation suggestion: make old versions of docs easily
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2024 21:18:25 +0000
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If go to the website of say, Perl or Python, and I see there's a cool fun=
ction I want to use, then often there will be a note "new in version X.Y"=
.
Then I know that if I need to support versions older than that, I can't u=
se it, and otherwise I can.
If there is no such note, then I also have the option of easily pulling u=
p old versions of the docs.
So I can quickly grab the docs for the oldest version I care about, and s=
ee if the function exists there.

Most GNU software (e.g., bash, coreutils, etc.) makes the latest version =
easily available on the website, but not older versions.
(The older versions are indeed available, but not require downloading and=
=20unzipping the full source distribution, or a similar level of annoyanc=
e.)
This is sometimes fine, since if I need to support some ancient version, =
then presumably I have access to at least one machine where that version =
is installed, and that machine will often have docs installed too.
But it's still nice to know whether I'm "skating close to the edge" or wh=
ether I'm using stuff that was already supported last century.

Just my two cents.
Mark.

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de with you in principal-to-principal wholesale markets transactions; and=
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cific issuers, see: https://publicresearch.barclays.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If go to the website of say, Perl or Python, and I=
=20see there&#8217;s a cool function I want to use, then often there will=
=20be a note &#8220;new in version X.Y&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Then I know that if I need to support versions old=
er than that, I can&#8217;t use it, and otherwise I can.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If there is no such note, then I also have the opt=
ion of easily pulling up old versions of the docs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I can quickly grab the docs for the oldest vers=
ion I care about, and see if the function exists there.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Most GNU software (e.g., bash, coreutils, etc.) ma=
kes the latest version easily available on the website, but not older ver=
sions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(The older versions are indeed available, but not =
require downloading and unzipping the full source distribution, or a simi=
lar level of annoyance.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is sometimes fine, since if I need to support=
=20some ancient version, then presumably I have access to at least one ma=
chine where that version is installed, and that machine will often have d=
ocs installed too.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But it&#8217;s still nice to know whether I&#8217;=
m &#8220;skating close to the edge&#8221; or whether I&#8217;m using stuf=
f that was already supported last century.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just my two cents.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark.<o:p></o:p></p>
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On 09/07/2024 22:18, mark.yagnatinsky--- via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wrote:
> If go to the website of say, Perl or Python, and I see there's a cool function I want to use, then often there will be a note "new in version X.Y".
> Then I know that if I need to support versions older than that, I can't use it, and otherwise I can.
> If there is no such note, then I also have the option of easily pulling up old versions of the docs.
> So I can quickly grab the docs for the oldest version I care about, and see if the function exists there.
> 
> Most GNU software (e.g., bash, coreutils, etc.) makes the latest version easily available on the website, but not older versions.
> (The older versions are indeed available, but not require downloading and unzipping the full source distribution, or a similar level of annoyance.)
> This is sometimes fine, since if I need to support some ancient version, then presumably I have access to at least one machine where that version is installed, and that machine will often have docs installed too.
> But it's still nice to know whether I'm "skating close to the edge" or whether I'm using stuff that was already supported last century.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> Mark.

This is a fair point.

Now there should be less interface churn from version to version,
than a larger API surface like python etc., but it's still a valid point.
Currently one way to glean this info would be from the NEWS file:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coreutils/coreutils/master/NEWS
But that is awkward to search, and you're not sure did you miss
an item, or that it was always present.

Presenting this version info inline in the docs would be
too invasive I think, given it's not usually required,
but presenting versions to select would be a useful service.
Along the lines of the FreeBSD project for example:
https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=timeout

Now the above is more useful as it's a complete distro,
which suggests it may be more appropriate for each distro
to provide complete versioned online man pages.
Debian does in fact do this with selectable distro versions:
https://manpages.debian.org/

Actually I now see a distro agnostic versioned man page repo,
which would be the most general way to determine portability constraints:
https://manned.org/

cheers,
Pádraig.

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Oh wow, manned.org is NICE ... I did not know about this!

-----Original Message-----
From: P=E1draig Brady <pixelbeat@HIDDEN> On Behalf Of P=E1draig Brady
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2024 4:48 AM
To: Yagnatinsky, Mark : IT (NYK) <mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN>; 72024@d=
ebbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72024: documentation suggestion: make old versions of do=
cs easily available


CAUTION: This email originated from outside our organisation - P@draigBra=
dy.com Do not click on links, open attachments, or respond unless you rec=
ognize the sender and can validate the content is safe.
On 09/07/2024 22:18, mark.yagnatinsky--- via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wr=
ote:
> If go to the website of say, Perl or Python, and I see there's a cool f=
unction I want to use, then often there will be a note "new in version X.=
Y".
> Then I know that if I need to support versions older than that, I can't=
=20use it, and otherwise I can.
> If there is no such note, then I also have the option of easily pulling=
=20up old versions of the docs.
> So I can quickly grab the docs for the oldest version I care about, and=
=20see if the function exists there.
>
> Most GNU software (e.g., bash, coreutils, etc.) makes the latest versio=
n easily available on the website, but not older versions.
> (The older versions are indeed available, but not require downloading=20
> and unzipping the full source distribution, or a similar level of annoy=
ance.) This is sometimes fine, since if I need to support some ancient ve=
rsion, then presumably I have access to at least one machine where that v=
ersion is installed, and that machine will often have docs installed too.=

> But it's still nice to know whether I'm "skating close to the edge" or =
whether I'm using stuff that was already supported last century.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Mark.

This is a fair point.

Now there should be less interface churn from version to version, than a =
larger API surface like python etc., but it's still a valid point.
Currently one way to glean this info would be from the NEWS file:
https://clicktime.symantec.com/15t5pR6kwQqcecLKd3QvS?h=3Da5ldoPPebCg7QcLk=
8Y1D4W7IWUsz0u5AdCm5wV9uXkc=3D&u=3Dhttps://raw.githubusercontent.com/core=
utils/coreutils/master/NEWS
But that is awkward to search, and you're not sure did you miss an item, =
or that it was always present.

Presenting this version info inline in the docs would be too invasive I t=
hink, given it's not usually required, but presenting versions to select =
would be a useful service.
Along the lines of the FreeBSD project for example:
https://clicktime.symantec.com/15t5ZvWuZZnqQmrYzNDUa?h=3DUvwZKu_D0uYE30Nv=
8hFYkasSpduaBwetcz35pUV4cQ4=3D&u=3Dhttps://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?qu=
ery%3Dtimeout

Now the above is more useful as it's a complete distro, which suggests it=
=20may be more appropriate for each distro to provide complete versioned =
online man pages.
Debian does in fact do this with selectable distro versions:
https://clicktime.symantec.com/15t5jauUUoA2EfWQ5V1mp?h=3DH7AIcCUHsewDyiVT=
PXCAwaqkbnuXwkxQufl9UOIjbzU=3D&u=3Dhttps://manpages.debian.org/

Actually I now see a distro agnostic versioned man page repo, which would=
=20be the most general way to determine portability constraints:
https://clicktime.symantec.com/15t5ekiC2BURpigUXvcdC?h=3DbAOQjRwh0OPke16a=
h2Sji_RZI_rP6-sPfjwIZGX3P5o=3D&u=3Dhttps://manned.org/

cheers,
P=E1draig.
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severity 76060 wishlist
severity 75994 wishlist
severity 75649 wishlist
severity 73510 wishlist
severity 73331 wishlist
severity 71307 wishlist
severity 73784 wishlist
tags 73194 notabug
close 74194
close 73194
close 73134
close 72756
severity 72024 wishlist
tags 71895 moreinfo unreproducible
tags 69636 notabug
close 69636
severity 69368 wishlist

Last modified: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 07:00:02 UTC

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