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Wed, 23 Oct 2024 20:47:56 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#73954: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple `dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#73954: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple `dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode' Thread-Index: AdsksQN7HDEc68uPS5qloUQKO/E83QAZBYhDAB08VbA= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 20:47:56 +0000 Message-ID: <DS7PR10MB5232F63EBCDF1988DFF43B4CF34D2@HIDDEN> References: <DS7PR10MB5232979B2D46334FC393C511F34C2@HIDDEN> <864j54ezwn.fsf@HIDDEN> <DS7PR10MB5232B2904F53A217CA829E67F34C2@HIDDEN> <8634knfi0v.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8634knfi0v.fsf@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DS7PR10MB5232:EE_|IA0PR10MB6914:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0e49b582-6602-4bec-ad16-08dcf3a3f911 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DS7PR10MB5232.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0e49b582-6602-4bec-ad16-08dcf3a3f911 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2024 20:47:56.3066 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 1ho0FXnSK9gdDKaPb7goTcdqncdkop0aYEr4xade/Vd8XKGP6bDcxIOgcTP5XZ2saXT2/Fl2fG2015JCfx/eEQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA0PR10MB6914 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1051,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.62.30 definitions=2024-10-23_16,2024-10-23_01,2024-09-30_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=540 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2409260000 definitions=main-2410230133 X-Proofpoint-GUID: xGR9LePP_nfHPQIwje2jN6ECspKq2W9I X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: xGR9LePP_nfHPQIwje2jN6ECspKq2W9I X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 73954 Cc: "73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > We just added this feature to the development branch. Let's first > > > collect some experience with it and see if it is popular enough to > > > extend it in any way. At this point, it is as possible that the > only > > > person to use it is the person who contributed it as it is possible > > > that it will be the hottest new Emacs feature, so let's wait and see > > > which is it. > > > > If you put it out there as it is, it'll be used as it is. > > > > What's the connection between wanting relative or absolute > > names for directory headers and wanting to hide columns > > other than the file name? >=20 > The connection is the "hide" part. People who are likely to want to > hide the leading directories are those who use > dired-hide-details-mode. To break the connection, we'd need evidence, > not theoretical possibilities. That's the foot in the door, if you allow it. There are several things in Dired that can be hidden in one way or another. So far, they're NOT all enabled willy nilly whenever you turn on `dired-hide-details-mode' - fortunately. You can hide subdirs (`$', `dired-kill-subdir', `M-$'), lines (`dired-kill-line'), whole trees (`dired-kill-tree'), uninteresting files (`dired-omit-mode'), image thumbnails (`C-t C-t'), etc. And in Dired enhancement libraries there are more hiding possibilities.=20 Instead of requiring evidence to "break the connection" - which is a brand new, _proposed_ connection, you ought to require evidence for why this particular proposed hiding should be connected to `dired-hide-details-mode'. Just putting "hide" in the name of something doesn't, logically, connect it to something else that has "hide" in its name. I'm quite surprised to hear such a rationale from you, frankly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#73954; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 73954) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2024 06:33:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 23 02:33:18 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t3Uvm-0002aJ-60 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:33:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t3Uvj-0002a5-JR for 73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:33:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t3Ut3-0000vL-QW; Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:30:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=g/R8Z70JeyVJu5FEzC18b4Tlk/NVCpjTZbHySp68P8U=; b=MtCLcaJ9ZbAj Wgx1y0/iu5EVq9mN37Bepymc3kanJxGIJDaPXZfiMTTMJJHz7ZIw5iSfTjDtsqRgHWSP6cY25e+HY UpdseGR67QLam7JCbzlbr58n+8E6aTxo8rBUaGF4+zTmBM4y4XAGzCKafXx+hEb6fiSiZmEAeMsFU A/ULx2zEOw+hgN1mKruje32bdcHF97lZmUj5f0D6wtybPGI18/m1rYp74SjOThjM41jhKomYIAkGq xtVq44NT+cUNgphEBUInwO3X3qu1cdSYlgjiad/6UZP59umsEn8X3yVrZdWREO2taqy25UQ6cirmD DQVs5/3dW/MA9KTJBTuT5Q==; Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 09:30:24 +0300 Message-Id: <8634knfi0v.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <DS7PR10MB5232B2904F53A217CA829E67F34C2@HIDDEN> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:09:57 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#73954: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple `dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode' References: <DS7PR10MB5232979B2D46334FC393C511F34C2@HIDDEN> <864j54ezwn.fsf@HIDDEN> <DS7PR10MB5232B2904F53A217CA829E67F34C2@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 73954 Cc: 73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > CC: "73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 19:09:57 +0000 > > > We just added this feature to the development branch. Let's first > > collect some experience with it and see if it is popular enough to > > extend it in any way. At this point, it is as possible that the only > > person to use it is the person who contributed it as it is possible > > that it will be the hottest new Emacs feature, so let's wait and see > > which is it. > > If you put it out there as it is, it'll be used as it is. > > What's the connection between wanting relative or absolute > names for directory headers and wanting to hide columns > other than the file name? The connection is the "hide" part. People who are likely to want to hide the leading directories are those who use dired-hide-details-mode. To break the connection, we'd need evidence, not theoretical possibilities.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#73954; Package emacs.
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Let's first > collect some experience with it and see if it is popular enough to > extend it in any way. At this point, it is as possible that the only > person to use it is the person who contributed it as it is possible > that it will be the hottest new Emacs feature, so let's wait and see > which is it. If you put it out there as it is, it'll be used as it is. What's the connection between wanting relative or absolute names for directory headers and wanting to hide columns other than the file name? There's only a connection if you happen to want to do them together.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#73954; Package emacs.
Full text available.Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 73954) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2024 18:50:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 22 14:50:09 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57497 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t3JxI-0001oo-NE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Oct 2024 14:50:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53146) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t3JxG-0001oJ-M2; Tue, 22 Oct 2024 14:50:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t3Jwi-0003zU-79; Tue, 22 Oct 2024 14:49:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eeZV5QPQ51DbNy+BFzOEdoNKzvVcsOt2skVBvlZcCMo=; b=JZUomItQ77/0 FptpXWRp24bcPjMuAzjuQj4bfptuElHjzONkAWQyD8fCGn+RbRkj6DcYNI6saIHhcsCGZzRA0rsKx v00LdtyQhQHrWohyBaf7xdxgxDTMyoW7gT4kP8D3nfjA0nh/9YRKq0jqRoY4cvz0j7w3SL4oQeNN1 8zbzAB9dxFVslqQW4OUKk6tbhFKt17PrwNV1i+yoBKNyAHSSBIL9rKY/ubEktw1GA3lBNmX0axdRs yyzAOeTVRpbaOfhAXb57SprYfbBzn0LA85IJ9/v5P0g2uUZY7muFk3/kBJRJA1boi+IY6QfnI/J4e Kfl1jXFcx6osdmfJ95kJDQ==; Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 21:49:28 +0300 Message-Id: <864j54ezwn.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <DS7PR10MB5232979B2D46334FC393C511F34C2@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#73954: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple `dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode' References: <DS7PR10MB5232979B2D46334FC393C511F34C2@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 73954 Cc: 73954 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) severity 73954 wishlist thanks > Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 18:34:25 +0000 > From: Drew Adams via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> > > Starting with Emacs 30 Dired directory header lines apparently show > relative names when `dired-hide-details-mode' is on, if option > `dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' is non-nil. > > (The only Windows v30 pretest snapshot I found doesn't have this option, > so I'm going only by the description from bug #72272.) You are not seeing it in Emacs 30 for a good reason: it was added for Emacs 31. > The behavior of being able to show only a relative name is a good one, > but it shouldn't be hard-coupled with `dired-hide-details-mode'. Users > should be able to choose: "Should" why? so we have yet another hard-to-remember and never-used combination of options? We just added this feature to the development branch. Let's first collect some experience with it and see if it is popular enough to extend it in any way. At this point, it is as possible that the only person to use it is the person who contributed it as it is possible that it will be the hottest new Emacs feature, so let's wait and see which is it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#73954; Package emacs.
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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple
`dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode'
Thread-Topic: 30.0.91; Don't hard-couple
`dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' with `dired-hide-details-mode'
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 18:34:25 +0000
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Starting with Emacs 30 Dired directory header lines apparently show
relative names when `dired-hide-details-mode' is on, if option
`dired-hide-details-hide-absolute-location' is non-nil.
(The only Windows v30 pretest snapshot I found doesn't have this option,
so I'm going only by the description from bug #72272.)
The behavior of being able to show only a relative name is a good one,
but it shouldn't be hard-coupled with `dired-hide-details-mode'. Users
should be able to choose:
nil Always show absolute name.
(This needs to stay the default.)=20
if-dired-hide-details-mode Show relative name only when
`dired-hide-details-mode' is on.
t Always show relative name.
FUNCTION Show relative name only when invoking
FUNCTION with no args returns non-nil.
The most important behaviors are for nil, t, and
`if-hiding-detail-columns'. FUNCTION is a nice-to-have.
(An alternative would be to use t for showing relative name when
`dired-hide-details-mode' is on and `always' for showing relative names
always. That keeps the current pre-release behavior for t. I don't
think it's preferable, but it's a possibility.)
In GNU Emacs 30.0.91 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2024-09-11 built
on AVALON
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045
System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.5011)
Configured using:
'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot
--without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter
--enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3''
Configured features:
ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP
NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB
(NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available)
Important settings:
value of $LANG: ENU
locale-coding-system: cp1252
Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#73954; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.