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Subject: bug#74808: date.1: Some remarks and and a patch for editorial changes for this man page
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2024 02:28:31 +0000
From: Bjarni Ingi Gislason <bjarniig@HIDDEN>
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--O0RBd24aCZYKUcwv
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Package: coreutils
Version: 9.5-1+b1
Severity: minor
Tags: patch

   * What led up to the situation?

     Checking for defects with a new version

test-[g|n]roff -mandoc -t -K utf8 -rF0 -rHY=0 -ww -z < "man page"

  [Use "groff -e ' $' <file>" to find trailing spaces.]

  ["test-groff" is a script in the repository for "groff"; is not shipped]
(local copy and "troff" slightly changed by me).

  [The fate of "test-nroff" was decided in groff bug #55941.]

   * What was the outcome of this action?

troff:<stdin>:236: warning: font name 'CW' is deprecated

   * What outcome did you expect instead?

     No output (no warnings).

-.-

  General remarks and further material, if a diff-file exist, are in the
attachments.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: trixie/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 6.11.10-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=is_IS.iso88591, LC_CTYPE=is_IS.iso88591 (charmap=ISO-8859-1), LANGUAGE not set
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

Versions of packages coreutils depends on:
ii  libacl1      2.3.2-2+b1
ii  libattr1     1:2.5.2-2
ii  libc6        2.40-4
ii  libgmp10     2:6.3.0+dfsg-3
ii  libselinux1  3.7-3+b1
ii  libssl3t64   3.3.2-2

coreutils recommends no packages.

coreutils suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information

--O0RBd24aCZYKUcwv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="chk_man.err.date.1"

Input file is date.1

  Any program (person), that produces man pages, should check the output
for defects by using (both groff and nroff)

[gn]roff -mandoc -t -ww -b -z -K utf8  <man page>

  The same goes for man pages that are used as an input.

  For a style guide use

  mandoc -T lint

-.-

  So any 'generator' should check its products with the above mentioned
'groff', 'mandoc',  and additionally with 'nroff ...'.

  This is just a simple quality control measure.

  The 'generator' may have to be corrected to get a better man page,
the source file may, and any additional file may.

  Common defects:

  Input text line longer than 80 bytes.

  Not removing trailing spaces (in in- and output).
  The reason for these trailing spaces should be found and eliminated.

  Not beginning each input sentence on a new line.
Lines should thus be shorter.

  See man-pages(7), item 'semantic newline'.

-.-

The difference between the formatted output of the original and patched file
can be seen with:

  nroff -mandoc <file1> > <out1>
  nroff -mandoc <file2> > <out2>
  diff -u <out1> <out2>

and for groff, using

"printf '%s\n%s\n' '.kern 0' '.ss 12 0' | groff -mandoc -Z - "

instead of 'nroff -mandoc'

  Add the option '-t', if the file contains a table.

  Read the output of 'diff -u' with 'less -R' or similar.

-.-.

  If 'man' (man-db) is used to check the manual for warnings,
the following must be set:

  The option "-warnings=w"

  The environmental variable:

export MAN_KEEP_STDERR=yes (or any non-empty value)

  or

  (produce only warnings):

export MANROFFOPT="-ww -b -z"

export MAN_KEEP_STDERR=yes (or any non-empty value)


-.-.

Output from "mandoc -T lint  date.1": (shortened list)

      1 input text line longer than 80 bytes
      1 skipping paragraph macro

-.-.

Output from "test-groff -mandoc -t -ww -z date.1": (shortened list)

      1 font name 'CW' is deprecated

-.-.

Output from "mandoc -T lint  date.1":

mandoc: date.1:10:96: STYLE: input text line longer than 80 bytes: [\fI\,-u|--utc|--uni...
mandoc: date.1:13:2: WARNING: skipping paragraph macro: PP after SH

-.-.

Change -- in x--y to \(em (em-dash), or, if an
option, to \-\-

236:\f(CW$ date --date='@2147483647'\fR
244:\f(CW$ date --date='TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 09:00 next Fri'\fR
247:The --date=STRING is a mostly free format human readable date string

-.-.

Change - to \- if it shall be printed as a minus sign.

date.1:248:such as "Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:21:42 -0800" or "2004-02-29 16:21:42" or

-.-.

Change a HYPHEN-MINUS (code 0x2D) to a minus(-dash) (\-),
if it
is in front of a name for an option,
is a symbol for standard input,
is a single character used to indicate an option,
or is in the NAME section (man-pages(7)).
N.B. - (0x2D), processed as a UTF-8 file, is changed to a hyphen
(0x2010, groff \[u2010] or \[hy]) in the output.

10:[\fI\,-u|--utc|--universal\/\fR] [\fI\,MMDDhhmm\/\fR[[\fI\,CC\/\fR]\fI\,YY\/\fR][\fI\,.ss\/\fR]]
236:\f(CW$ date --date='@2147483647'\fR
244:\f(CW$ date --date='TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 09:00 next Fri'\fR
247:The --date=STRING is a mostly free format human readable date string

-.-.

Strings longer than 3/4 of a standard line length (80)
Use "\:" to split the string at the end of an output line, for example a
long URLs (web address)

10 [\fI\,-u|--utc|--universal\/\fR] [\fI\,MMDDhhmm\/\fR[[\fI\,CC\/\fR]\fI\,YY\/\fR][\fI\,.ss\/\fR]]

-.-.

Wrong distance between sentences in the input file.

  Separate the sentences and subordinate clauses; each begins on a new
line.  See man-pages(7) ("Conventions for source file layout") and
"info groff" ("Input Conventions").

  The best procedure is to always start a new sentence on a new line,
at least, if you are typing on a computer.

Remember coding: Only one command ("sentence") on each (logical) line.

E-mail: Easier to quote exactly the relevant lines.

Generally: Easier to edit the sentence.

Patches: Less unaffected text.

Search for two adjacent words is easier, when they belong to the same line,
and the same phrase.

  The amount of space between sentences in the output can then be
controlled with the ".ss" request.

-.-

Split lines longer than 80 characters into two or more lines.
Appropriate break points are the end of a sentence and a subordinate
clause; after punctuation marks.

Line 10, length 96

[\fI\,-u|--utc|--universal\/\fR] [\fI\,MMDDhhmm\/\fR[[\fI\,CC\/\fR]\fI\,YY\/\fR][\fI\,.ss\/\fR]]

-.-.

Put a parenthetical sentence, phrase on a separate line,
if not part of a code.
See man-pages(7), item "semantic newline".

date.1:77:locale's full weekday name (e.g., Sunday)
date.1:83:locale's full month name (e.g., January)
date.1:86:locale's date and time (e.g., Thu Mar  3 23:05:25 2005)
date.1:137:nanoseconds (000000000..999999999)
date.1:149:locale's 12\-hour clock time (e.g., 11:11:04 PM)
date.1:155:seconds since the Epoch (1970\-01\-01 00:00 UTC)
date.1:182:locale's date representation (e.g., 12/31/99)
date.1:185:locale's time representation (e.g., 23:13:48)
date.1:194:+hhmm numeric time zone (e.g., \fB\-0400\fR)
date.1:197:+hh:mm numeric time zone (e.g., \fB\-04\fR:00)
date.1:200:+hh:mm:ss numeric time zone (e.g., \fB\-04\fR:00:00)
date.1:203:numeric time zone with : to necessary precision (e.g., \fB\-04\fR, +05:30)
date.1:234:Convert seconds since the Epoch (1970\-01\-01 UTC) to a date
date.1:238:Show the time on the west coast of the US (use \fBtzselect\fP(1) to find TZ)

-.-.

Two or more space charaters between printable characters.

When the distance is between sentences,
start the beginning of the second one on a separate line
("semantic newline", see man-pages(7)).

  Change this in the original file.

68:FORMAT controls the output.  Interpreted sequences are:
86:locale's date and time (e.g., Thu Mar  3 23:05:25 2005)
249:even "next Thursday".  A date string may contain items indicating
251:relative date, and numbers.  An empty string indicates the beginning
252:of the day.  The date string format is more complex than is easily

-.-.

Output from "test-groff  -mandoc -t -K utf8 -rF0 -rHY=0 -rCHECKSTYLE=10 -ww -z ":

troff:<stdin>:236: warning: font name 'CW' is deprecated

-.-.

  '|' inside '[...]' is typeset in roman.

-.-

  Additionally (general):

  Abbreviations get a '\&' added after their final full stop (.) to mark them
as such and not as an end of a sentence.

  There is no need to add a '\&' before a full stop (.) if it has a character
before it!

--O0RBd24aCZYKUcwv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="date.1.diff"

--- date.1	2024-12-12 01:42:56.367791309 +0000
+++ date.1.new	2024-12-12 02:16:06.420857339 +0000
@@ -4,10 +4,11 @@
 date \- print or set the system date and time
 .SH SYNOPSIS
 .B date
-[\fI\,OPTION\/\fR]... [\fI\,+FORMAT\/\fR]
+.RI [ OPTION "]...\& [" +FORMAT ]
 .br
 .B date
-[\fI\,-u|--utc|--universal\/\fR] [\fI\,MMDDhhmm\/\fR[[\fI\,CC\/\fR]\fI\,YY\/\fR][\fI\,.ss\/\fR]]
+.RB [ \-u | \-\-utc | \-\-universal ]
+.RI [ MMDDhhmm [[ CC ] YY ][ .ss ]]
 .SH DESCRIPTION
 .\" Add any additional description here
 .PP
@@ -31,7 +32,7 @@ output date/time in ISO 8601 format.
 FMT='date' for date only (the default),
 \&'hours', 'minutes', 'seconds', or 'ns'
 for date and time to the indicated precision.
-Example: 2006\-08\-14T02:34:56\-06:00
+Example: 2006\-08\-14T02:34:56\(en06:00
 .TP
 \fB\-\-resolution\fR
 output the available resolution of timestamps
@@ -233,19 +234,19 @@ O to use the locale's alternate numeric
 .SH EXAMPLES
 Convert seconds since the Epoch (1970\-01\-01 UTC) to a date
 .IP
-\f(CW$ date --date='@2147483647'\fR
+\f(CR$ date \-\-date='@2147483647'\fR
 .PP
 Show the time on the west coast of the US (use \fBtzselect\fP(1) to find TZ)
 .IP
-\f(CW$ TZ='America/Los_Angeles' date\fR
+\f(CR$ TZ='America/Los_Angeles' date\fR
 .PP
 Show the local time for 9AM next Friday on the west coast of the US
 .IP
-\f(CW$ date --date='TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 09:00 next Fri'\fR
+\f(CR$ date \-\-date='TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 09:00 next Fri'\fR
 .SH "DATE STRING"
 .\" NOTE: keep this paragraph in sync with the one in touch.x
-The --date=STRING is a mostly free format human readable date string
-such as "Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:21:42 -0800" or "2004-02-29 16:21:42" or
+The \-\-date=STRING is a mostly free format human readable date string
+such as "Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:21:42 \-0800" or "2004-02-29 16:21:42" or
 even "next Thursday".  A date string may contain items indicating
 calendar date, time of day, time zone, day of week, relative time,
 relative date, and numbers.  An empty string indicates the beginning

--O0RBd24aCZYKUcwv--

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To: Bjarni Ingi Gislason <bjarniig@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#74808: Acknowledgement (date.1: Some remarks and and a patch
 for editorial changes for this man page)
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Subject: bug#74808: date.1: Some remarks and and a patch for editorial changes for this man page
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On 2024-12-11 18:28, Bjarni Ingi Gislason wrote:
> troff:<stdin>:236: warning: font name 'CW' is deprecated

That "CW" was generated by help2man so I'll CC this message to 
<bug-help2man@HIDDEN> as per 
<https://www.gnu.org/software/help2man/#Reports>.

Can you suggest what help2man should use instead of \f(CW? Help2man 
needs be be portable to older groff and likely to traditional troff.

To the help2man maintainers: apparently groff now complains about \f(CW; 
see <https://bugs.gnu.org/74808>.

Message sent to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#74808: date.1: Some remarks and and a patch for editorial changes for this man page
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There is a detailed message here:
https://github.com/Perl/perl5/issues/21239#issuecomment-1645998105 relating
to a similar issue with pod2man.

From that it seems that CR is a replacement which should work for groff, if
I read that correctly, James Clarke used that from the start.

The story about supporting AT&T troff is less clear, but my reading is that
CR may not work there.

I'm currently on leave, away from my computer, but expect to address this
in help2man after I come back.

My planned fix was to just switch to CR, as that should resolve the issue
for pretty much everyone, given the prevalence of groff.

I could provide an option with CR as the default, but that wouldn't really
help anyone who received the pre-built date.1 .

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, 15:07 Paul Eggert, <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote:

> On 2024-12-11 18:28, Bjarni Ingi Gislason wrote:
> > troff:<stdin>:236: warning: font name 'CW' is deprecated
>
> That "CW" was generated by help2man so I'll CC this message to
> <bug-help2man@HIDDEN> as per
> <https://www.gnu.org/software/help2man/#Reports>.
>
> Can you suggest what help2man should use instead of \f(CW? Help2man
> needs be be portable to older groff and likely to traditional troff.
>
> To the help2man maintainers: apparently groff now complains about \f(CW;
> see <https://bugs.gnu.org/74808>.
>

--0000000000001af08a0629189fce
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>There is a detailed message here: <a href=3D"https:/=
/github.com/Perl/perl5/issues/21239#issuecomment-1645998105">https://github=
.com/Perl/perl5/issues/21239#issuecomment-1645998105</a> relating to a simi=
lar issue with pod2man.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
From that it seems that CR is a replacement which should work for groff, if=
 I read that correctly, James Clarke used that from the start.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The story about supporting AT&amp;T =
troff is less clear, but my reading is that CR may not work there.</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m currently on leave, away=
 from my computer, but expect to address this in help2man after I come back=
.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My planned fix was to =
just switch to CR, as that should resolve=C2=A0the issue for pretty much ev=
eryone, given the prevalence of groff.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">I could provide an option with CR as the default, but that w=
ouldn&#39;t really help anyone who received the pre-built date.1 .</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container" dir=3D"=
auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, 15:07 Paul=
 Eggert, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eggert@HIDDEN">eggert@HIDDEN</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 2024-12-11 18:28, Bjar=
ni Ingi Gislason wrote:<br>
&gt; troff:&lt;stdin&gt;:236: warning: font name &#39;CW&#39; is deprecated=
<br>
<br>
That &quot;CW&quot; was generated by help2man so I&#39;ll CC this message t=
o <br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bug-help2man@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">bug-help2man@HIDDEN</a>&gt; as per <br>
&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/help2man/#Reports" rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.gnu.org/software/help2man/#=
Reports</a>&gt;.<br>
<br>
Can you suggest what help2man should use instead of \f(CW? Help2man <br>
needs be be portable to older groff and likely to traditional troff.<br>
<br>
To the help2man maintainers: apparently groff now complains about \f(CW; <b=
r>
see &lt;<a href=3D"https://bugs.gnu.org/74808" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://bugs.gnu.org/74808</a>&gt;.<br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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On 12/12/24 12:32, Brendan O'Dea wrote:
>  From that it seems that CR is a replacement which should work for groff, if
> I read that correctly, James Clarke used that from the start.

Perhaps help2man could be changed to generate man pages that use CR if 
it's groff, and CW otherwise.

I haven't seen a help2man release lately; anybody know what's up with that?

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On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 17:47 Paul Eggert, <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote:

> On 12/12/24 12:32, Brendan O'Dea wrote:
> >  From that it seems that CR is a replacement which should work for
> groff, if
> > I read that correctly, James Clarke used that from the start.
>
> Perhaps help2man could be changed to generate man pages that use CR if
> it's groff, and CW otherwise.
>

That seems like a reasonable choice if it is possible to identify groff.  I
noted another option in a reply off list earlier today.

I haven't seen a help2man release lately; anybody know what's up with that?
>

bug-help2man is is an alias to my email address, and I have fallen behind.
I finally got to working through the backlog yesterday (mostly prompted by
an email about this issue), but ran out of time.  I'll push a release when
I return.

--bod

>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 17:47 Paul Eggert, =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eggert@HIDDEN">eggert@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 12/12/24 12:32, Brendan O&#39;D=
ea wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 From that it seems that CR is a replacement which should work fo=
r groff, if<br>
&gt; I read that correctly, James Clarke used that from the start.<br>
<br>
Perhaps help2man could be changed to generate man pages that use CR if <br>
it&#39;s groff, and CW otherwise.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">That seems like a reasonable choice if it =
is possible to identify groff.=C2=A0 I noted another option in a reply off =
list earlier today.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
I haven&#39;t seen a help2man release lately; anybody know what&#39;s up wi=
th that?<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">bug-help2man is is an alias to my email address, and I have falle=
n behind.=C2=A0 I finally got to working through the backlog yesterday (mos=
tly prompted by an email about this issue), but ran out of time.=C2=A0 I&#3=
9;ll push a release when I return.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">--bod</div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quo=
te_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 08:55:22 +0000
From: Bjarni Ingi Gislason <bjarniig@HIDDEN>
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  Use the string 'mC', defined in groff's an-ext.tmac file


.\" register .g is defined to be 1 for heirloom-doc (and groff)
.if t \{\
.  ie \n(.g \{\
.    ds mC CR
.\"  tm constant width font used is \*(mC
.\"     String mC is \*(mC
.  \}
.  el \{\
.    if !'\*(mC'' \{\
.      tm String "mC" already defined to be \*(mC
.      tm Is redefined to be CW
.    \}
.    ds mC CW
.\".  tm constant width font used is \*(mC
.  \}
.\}

  then use "\ef(\*(mC" to change the font, for example
\f(\*(mCString in constant width\fP


  Such a definition is then added after the '.TH' macro call.

  Testet with groff and heirloom-doc only.

Message sent to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:

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Subject: bug#74808: date.1: Some remarks and and a patch for editorial changes for this man page
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I was thinking of something simpler, like this:

.if t .if \n(.g \{\
.  ds fC \f(CR
.  ds fP \fP
.\}

and then surrounding constant-width text with \*(fC and \*(fP. This 
should be legible with older troff without worrying whether the older 
troff supports CW. For older troff, being legible is good enough.

Last modified: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 05:45:02 UTC

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