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Subject: bug#75649: dd: report base 1024 for bytes per second
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Hello,

human options would be better if it included base 1024 by default, the code
can turn that bit off where it doesn't want it (the si transfer status
value, should be the only place).

I think the minimal changes would be something like this:

https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/compare/master...tcely:coreutils:patch-1.patch

From fdf9763a069db4f0c80a84efae1232123f3d44a3 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: tcely
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 08:00:46 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] Turn on human_base_1024 by default

There was only one place not using that bit.
Turn it off once rather than turning on multiple places.
---
 src/dd.c | 3 ++-
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/src/dd.c b/src/dd.c
index 4e914336b9..b0425e29c4 100644
--- a/src/dd.c
+++ b/src/dd.c
@@ -654,6 +654,7 @@ Options are:\n\
 /* Common options to use when displaying sizes and rates.  */

 enum { human_opts = (human_autoscale | human_round_to_nearest
+                     | human_base_1024 | human_group_digits
                      | human_space_before_unit | human_SI | human_B) };

 /* Ensure input buffer IBUF is allocated.  */
@@ -738,7 +739,7 @@ print_xfer_stats (xtime_t progress_time)
   char hbuf[3][LONGEST_HUMAN_READABLE + sizeof slash_s];
   double delta_s;
   char const *bytes_per_second;
-  char const *si = human_readable (w_bytes, hbuf[0], human_opts, 1, 1);
+  char const *si = human_readable (w_bytes, hbuf[0], human_opts & (~
human_base_1024), 1, 1);
   char const *iec = human_readable (w_bytes, hbuf[1],
                                     human_opts | human_base_1024, 1, 1);

--000000000000cf3541062bfbb099
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto">Hello,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">human options would be better if it included base 1024 b=
y default, the code can turn that bit off where it doesn&#39;t want it (the=
 si transfer status value, should be the only place).</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think the minimal changes would be somethin=
g like this:</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><a href=3D"=
https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/compare/master...tcely:coreutils:pat=
ch-1.patch">https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/compare/master...tcely:c=
oreutils:patch-1.patch</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><div dir=3D"auto">From fdf9763a069db4f0c80a84efae1232123f3d44a3 Mon Sep =
17 00:00:00 2001</div><div dir=3D"auto">From: tcely</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 08:00:46 -0500</div><div dir=3D"auto">Subject: [PATC=
H] Turn on human_base_1024 by default</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">There was only one place not using that bit.</div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Turn it off once rather than turning on multiple places.</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">---</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0src/dd.c | 3 ++-</div><div dir=
=3D"auto">=C2=A01 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">diff --git a/src/dd.c b/src/dd.c</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">index 4e914336b9..b0425e29c4 100644</div><div dir=3D"au=
to">--- a/src/dd.c</div><div dir=3D"auto">+++ b/src/dd.c</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">@@ -654,6 +654,7 @@ Options are:\n\</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0/* Co=
mmon options to use when displaying sizes and rates.=C2=A0 */</div><div dir=
=3D"auto">=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0enum { human_opts =3D (human_=
autoscale | human_round_to_nearest</div><div dir=3D"auto">+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| human_base_=
1024 | human_group_digits</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | human_space_before_u=
nit | human_SI | human_B) };</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D=
"auto">=C2=A0/* Ensure input buffer IBUF is allocated.=C2=A0 */</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">@@ -738,7 +739,7 @@ print_xfer_stats (xtime_t progress_time)</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0char hbuf[3][LONGEST_HUMAN_READABLE + siz=
eof slash_s];</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0double delta_s;</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0char const *bytes_per_second;</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">-=C2=A0 char const *si =3D human_readable (w_bytes, hbuf[0], human_opt=
s, 1, 1);</div><div dir=3D"auto">+=C2=A0 char const *si =3D human_readable =
(w_bytes, hbuf[0], human_opts &amp; (~ human_base_1024), 1, 1);</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0char const *iec =3D human_readable (w_bytes, hbuf[=
1],</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0human_opts | human_base_1024, 1, 1);</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=
=A0</div></div></div>

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Chris Ely <chris.ely@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#75649: Acknowledgement (dd: report base 1024 for bytes per
 second)
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Subject: bug#75649: dd: report base 1024 for bytes per second
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On 18/01/2025 14:17, Chris Ely wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> human options would be better if it included base 1024 by default, the code
> can turn that bit off where it doesn't want it (the si transfer status
> value, should be the only place).

I'm not sure about that.
Generally data transfer rates (network, usb, disk, ...) are specified in SI units,
so it would be good to be consistent with those for comparison reasons.

cheers,
Pádraig

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Subject: bug#75649: dd: report base 1024 for bytes per second
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dd is a file oriented program. Files aren't stored with base 10.

For dd, especially, the default block size is 512 bytes, not 500 bytes. The
most valuable comparison isn't to some network graph you may have showing
base 10 speeds, it's to the written file.

I suppose you could display both speeds, but that line is already long. I'd
much rather not see the base 10 numbers at all without a variable/option
requesting them.

Using base 10 with files is only inviting confusion just like it would be
for memory.

On Tue, Jan 21, 2025, 10:15 P=C3=A1draig Brady <P@HIDDEN> wrote:

> On 18/01/2025 14:17, Chris Ely wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > human options would be better if it included base 1024 by default, the
> code
> > can turn that bit off where it doesn't want it (the si transfer status
> > value, should be the only place).
>
> I'm not sure about that.
> Generally data transfer rates (network, usb, disk, ...) are specified in
> SI units,
> so it would be good to be consistent with those for comparison reasons.
>
> cheers,
> P=C3=A1draig
>

--0000000000004f38c7062c39778d
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<p dir=3D"ltr">dd is a file oriented program. Files aren&#39;t stored with =
base 10.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">For dd, especially, the default block size is 512 bytes, not=
 500 bytes. The most valuable comparison isn&#39;t to some network graph yo=
u may have showing base 10 speeds, it&#39;s to the written file.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I suppose you could display both speeds, but that line is al=
ready long. I&#39;d much rather not see the base 10 numbers at all without =
a variable/option requesting them.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Using base 10 with files is only inviting confusion just lik=
e it would be for memory.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 21, 2025, 10:15 P=C3=A1draig Brady &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:P@HIDDEN">P@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">On 18/01/2025 14:17, Chris Ely wrote:<br>
&gt; Hello,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; human options would be better if it included base 1024 by default, the=
 code<br>
&gt; can turn that bit off where it doesn&#39;t want it (the si transfer st=
atus<br>
&gt; value, should be the only place).<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure about that.<br>
Generally data transfer rates (network, usb, disk, ...) are specified in SI=
 units,<br>
so it would be good to be consistent with those for comparison reasons.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
P=C3=A1draig<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000004f38c7062c39778d--

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On 2025-01-21 07:59, Chris Ely wrote:
> I'd
> much rather not see the base 10 numbers at all

No matter which of the two numbers we display, people preferring the=20
other number will complain. This topic has come up before, multiple=20
times, with people commenting at lennnngth. See:

https://bugs.gnu.org/17505
https://bugs.gnu.org/22277

I rarely see transfer rates in anything other than SI units. When=20
companies market hardware, for example, they invariably use GB/s rather=20
than GiB/s because this makes their transfer rates look higher. So like=20
P=C3=A1draig I'm dubious about changing the transfer-rate line to use bas=
e=20
1024 only.

More generally, any such proposed patch shouldn't be just to the code:=20
it should explain specifically how the patch would affect dd's behavior,=20
and this explanation should include changes to the documentation and the=20
NEWS file. As things stand I don't know how the patch addresses the=20
motivation of avoiding SI units.

[1]:=20
https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/entertainment/gaming/nintendo-switch-2-a=
nnouncement-and-updates-news/

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Subject: bug#75649: dd: report base 1024 for bytes per second
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Thank you for the links to the older bugs.

I'm still of the opinion that introducing base 10 output, in the realm of
files that are always stored in base 2 sized blocks, is a mistake that only
confuses people using dd unnecessarily.

On Tue, Jan 21, 2025, 12:37 Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote:

> On 2025-01-21 07:59, Chris Ely wrote:
> > I'd
> > much rather not see the base 10 numbers at all
>
> No matter which of the two numbers we display, people preferring the
> other number will complain. This topic has come up before, multiple
> times, with people commenting at lennnngth. See:
>
> https://bugs.gnu.org/17505
> https://bugs.gnu.org/22277
>
> I rarely see transfer rates in anything other than SI units. When
> companies market hardware, for example, they invariably use GB/s rather
> than GiB/s because this makes their transfer rates look higher. So like
> P=C3=A1draig I'm dubious about changing the transfer-rate line to use bas=
e
> 1024 only.
>
> More generally, any such proposed patch shouldn't be just to the code:
> it should explain specifically how the patch would affect dd's behavior,
> and this explanation should include changes to the documentation and the
> NEWS file. As things stand I don't know how the patch addresses the
> motivation of avoiding SI units.
>
> [1]:
>
> https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/entertainment/gaming/nintendo-switch-2-a=
nnouncement-and-updates-news/
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Thank you for the links to the older bugs.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m still of the opinion that introducing base 10 output=
, in the realm of files that are always stored in base 2 sized blocks, is a=
 mistake that only confuses people using dd unnecessarily.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 21, 2025, 12:37 Paul Eggert &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:eggert@HIDDEN">eggert@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">On 2025-01-21 07:59, Chris Ely wrote:<br>
&gt; I&#39;d<br>
&gt; much rather not see the base 10 numbers at all<br>
<br>
No matter which of the two numbers we display, people preferring the <br>
other number will complain. This topic has come up before, multiple <br>
times, with people commenting at lennnngth. See:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://bugs.gnu.org/17505" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://bugs.gnu.org/17505</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://bugs.gnu.org/22277" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://bugs.gnu.org/22277</a><br>
<br>
I rarely see transfer rates in anything other than SI units. When <br>
companies market hardware, for example, they invariably use GB/s rather <br=
>
than GiB/s because this makes their transfer rates look higher. So like <br=
>
P=C3=A1draig I&#39;m dubious about changing the transfer-rate line to use b=
ase <br>
1024 only.<br>
<br>
More generally, any such proposed patch shouldn&#39;t be just to the code: =
<br>
it should explain specifically how the patch would affect dd&#39;s behavior=
, <br>
and this explanation should include changes to the documentation and the <b=
r>
NEWS file. As things stand I don&#39;t know how the patch addresses the <br=
>
motivation of avoiding SI units.<br>
<br>
[1]: <br>
<a href=3D"https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/entertainment/gaming/nintendo-s=
witch-2-announcement-and-updates-news/" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/entertainment/gaming/nintendo=
-switch-2-announcement-and-updates-news/</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000693e02062c3b9fbe--

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Subject: bug#75649: dd: report base 1024 for bytes per second
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On Jan 21 2025, Chris Ely wrote:

> I'm still of the opinion that introducing base 10 output, in the realm of
> files that are always stored in base 2 sized blocks, is a mistake that only
> confuses people using dd unnecessarily.

But the size of files is only rarely a multiple of the block size, so
there is no connection between those metrics.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

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severity 76060 wishlist
severity 75994 wishlist
severity 75649 wishlist
severity 73510 wishlist
severity 73331 wishlist
severity 71307 wishlist
severity 73784 wishlist
tags 73194 notabug
close 74194
close 73194
close 73134
close 72756
severity 72024 wishlist
tags 71895 moreinfo unreproducible
tags 69636 notabug
close 69636
severity 69368 wishlist

Last modified: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 07:00:02 UTC

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