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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Noris-IP: 87.176.141.2 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Am 07.03.25 um 10:21 schrieb Ricardo Wurmus: > > As a long time contributor with commit access I have the impression that > people new to Guix hold the assumption that the current system and > workflow works for long time contributors. I may just be wildly > incompetent, but for me it most assuredly does not work in enabling > reviews. Same here. -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@HIDDEN | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 18:49:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 14:49:10 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58118 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tsncE-0002xv-1z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 14:49:10 -0400 Received: from mail01.noris.net ([62.128.1.221]:57951) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <h.goebel@HIDDEN>) id 1tsncA-0002xe-Ay for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 14:49:08 -0400 Received: from p57b08d02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.176.141.2] helo=hermia.goebel-consult.de) by mail01.noris.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim) (envelope-from <h.goebel@HIDDEN>) id 1tsnc8-0004LD-HD; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 19:49:04 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hermia.goebel-consult.de [192.168.110.7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by hermia.goebel-consult.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E609602A1; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 19:49:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <509634a5-1588-487f-ad91-735e93d48f39@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 19:49:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frjozwbn.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@HIDDEN> Content-Language: de-DE, en-US Autocrypt: addr=h.goebel@HIDDEN; keydata= xsFNBFJQM3oBEACiUXmMppc3+A7JpF3lPz8O/mRhfz1U6F4EOTlacTrCcm7Xg5U2JsPPNapV r5+vHnKBK+xbaX3s/A/G+SwrUZhi1X1HRnSNY1CqL8CT7rZmOtfjg4ExnOuCjie2bKhb9JKm lJ7MrNimIbNQoX1mRcQ4VMEflhyWfaPGbT73siuMkbr020ExhzW8T18JIC01SgWMULYMBXOB oGY21am/vaTFCK8bym1P4HVN8i64uOWL0agkAMHbju6SZtG2fYJ68eS3P/97bXRg1pveEdpa FgaFZhquecw4WdedwLwt1xNcjAg/p6tN73W3asEZTgMHa+iNzbJgcyhWpci09wQZfZ1uL0Hd M+ohng38ccgu9hJx6YzCN7Fe14JooKbPukG/WfClAgAzZSHRKpS4zGdGlg6D6EWayyWWoLR3 KoMA4LIIlaQbqaOhfe85b4mNgB1hqd0uRTHOah/6T+FUoSQ1IAeKLIDqj6rW7X4ISRn1CXGS LGDn2QKqR3KtU3cLf8hAeDeO7Qe1jTvLrG1Mfca8lEmC7/yN1gI7L4/cs6lhmXUgMaevuxss BxO2kkh0OS8HVFf+QQ7LZ5vt91yQVT9HVvOuVob0YtG+3rvkpMaHQilKloNoEkmMiHpwypBa IfAC6NP9smgionvvmQ5RWSEaH5/pfSUAYbqzWbqDxtqEF/mPOwARAQABzS1IYXJ0bXV0IEdv ZWJlbCA8aC5nb2ViZWxAY3JhenktY29tcGlsZXJzLmNvbT7CwZQEEwEKAD4CGwMCHgECF4AF CwkIBwMFFQoJCAsFFgIDAQAWIQTUrYucFnt1fE8I6Hd7dSgRv3c7ZQUCZXYHFwUJFwaNHQAK CRB7dSgRv3c7ZV3XD/0TQziqqbblVi+apROMF+nvuoyAhHX0KMAuVAI1Qi+9jJN1oa1xAl2P 5/Kco/WUxKSpuJBXN+riAiMslfBCCUkNO4ZlIXeVRzOZOWoDVJSuQYhu2NXsziD2mAXRTw0k SR5U8uHV98Vpqj8EHMgdQOfASOZpMAPMjcZ2BfBELD5Hp8xcjkMU+TMu1T/Sg22bcFQDSVsI CpGP8JqeAE82vpBjFUEBgriw49kRpccGHz3F37SpCqyLexJP6BvF42Tpa3+0FPciJ5HTPiUf DZfo4ob8ry/AVswjukVcvCVNAMlbH7pVQNrXWq7ObaM1+Fzzc7UpSooDsbZ5A5KjP2T36Kyj IW0wzXQEzk4n5+2m8m3+4TzQPgkGLRs5PfIjb5MAuzAZ25h+1YK8IepynHv/aVQl0FPoNXDn tGKL3g/K8FV3aSjYN+ya4IsCkuyyziUl7WshtHZ+jglYVcBF2xPDjICv+qmWzLLlVabhVvqG IYRL/hiaVgmpzQ+87jIOBsknT8BHExIcQMbf/hjwRau4kFKCpNTT9VMKOf+xcLjjB+wWoM/Y psUcJtikSnwb3fGmGZvMMyAS+wk240pCAZ9y9wXkAEY7qPL/DYjo9yjuU+c5xbn0okf8hSod NRuYgIn+bghxEvku/2Q8FjBvhLY/wefH8Qhz8R9WZ7z3SsXVhs54xc7BTQRSUDN6ARAAveU7 P66Ee50S+i8lV0TGX4xMculhxqMDRAvMNd7SOIBh0H4mm+bsIApqeLrX96jVKcfJE5EQuPGX 98vfK2ODfJG9UAzYj7GDuUgHipcvmtHkryIXinH+NhXYIEiLA4pDqBURWTaGmX+0+o/dB04p d0u7ew4zViCDc83l9z4jsHqW5yHHoG7s0BHudYqfoPU104jVRkvoOvox7/qE1UkEa8MXcWbb HQKgge6MWSx87Fm3ChkxefXc3XxkPJA4wDz14c1CUWuL2LnEbeVowBbYzRujN/4XBMFeiYha RPZOSPeiZbxkhx9qCzZKlGRCXjmkTrmcsorfp5E2g1sGi+opqUzKEqy0VOkiONNlEwjkRnzu PuBhf+CEKyzYtnPhfRZ+8fqVi3xi+O8j1K2XgQ2826RBlJmAilpoCBlx5fK4tqP4VjVxVcrc ChOH6Wit19evdNIHGVvXPtw0eqwj291HCx8L42D7JGs0ac3DTTx+AOr1+Fpm6zWSu09DNPIn MzD3Gcsq4eEcVuQcNpbUZv12cQIEXxpPSSN9+AQ0Rrkrpt/IAYZnnOKQG4r0Rl0hDQqAs/nm F2djs+KBdrNKy9jFUHrb4HSRFjGPIztQBfnn5B4PumQ+EGZGjN41hnNDG71zJ4Pzd7Vh/t12 cGSQtdXJPMoi60aHZHYGRyaRsEpO/bsAEQEAAcLBewQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBNSti5wWe3V8Twjo d3t1KBG/dztlBQJl0zYCBQkXBiA2AAoJEHt1KBG/dztl8SAP9jhSVpxB/3zV+uWhtH7dsihN Imylcs6/v/pn/topMASFAxwwODSTCBfqm/+H9KBL89gwRfBhwVKt2+e2nREMWyyzqWe1H8Ye tng4kEdmcAzT/eeL279Tu0GolFHQSkBZMeAp6qJu+JmFTsDAFhx+X+14mpU2CP352xDF9tDf Gw51b9jIhuKgkB1uukYSDghUTH3rW5+rxuwvNgQ7YDgznyykESfaCUeqVAabA8xKbErKM8G6 PLS93Zu1FJKCr2R2Br2HsI7Yi6g9VTM5Rws1COE0ApJr/GEnebpUh0QcOUiRxtx2LCR4nQI9 Vb6Dky+6aaWz4NsawdLJCym9MxKsGBwV70+xoqOVyA3NNWAZAnPYyEntPWMKTYlwJZDNURqT NSE3TlS3RUpHJ/y7FeSUQ0kVMmpFZjRY671qAvt6Q4uEsnDcz1g06zLnJKQLs9tEg4kCP32w kgMrrtAFQwbWzGTxf3xnjVooEJHHI7vOCzj83BQM4sq2Mp6kyuKjrAM+kLZChg8gd+Koj7fj eUIfwDjLCf3Ax7+g1QEqSqVsYxEB60oLONGMy0V31mofwefbWyFEhf7Mkb3lq01JtJ8TYNIL piWwGAMdoMZO8fXmTslMrRAStK3PpuUV1R3iAiqBHfyGYPQD5snxA4sHmWDSqI4OfUbVVkA6 OY6DWb43/DE= Organization: crazy-compilers.com In-Reply-To: <87frjozwbn.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Noris-IP: 87.176.141.2 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Am 07.03.25 um 16:37 schrieb Ricardo Wurmus: > We have had non-trivial patches with a number of revisions on the > guix-science channel. > > Examples: > > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/59 > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/75 Thanks for sharing. IMHO these are good examples showing that a forge can offer a better view on the state of the patches: Under "commits" one gets a patch-based view, under "files" one gets a file-based view — both at the current state of the code. If one is interested in differences to the former attempts, they can compare the revisions. One can also see which comments have been solved and which are still open. This makes it easier to review and to know about the current state of the patch than in an email-based workflow. I'd never do this with a email-based workflow — as this requires to create a local branch for every revision of the patch series. -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@HIDDEN | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 15:06:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 13 11:06:13 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tsk8R-00057W-OQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 11:06:13 -0400 Received: from mx2.dismail.de ([159.69.191.136]:3072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jbranso@HIDDEN>) id 1tsk8J-00056R-RX for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 11:06:08 -0400 Received: from mx2.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id c3964da8 for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:05:54 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=dismail.de; h= mime-version:date:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from :message-id:subject:to; s=20190914; bh=uyXIKXmeUBepykGFbGRVh3O2m x7DfgtK4OFUkCdxgp8=; b=WJsk1JK7Sq1Kr3PJyEQ++L9h6xvepm8zR3YchCGD0 1OnDES6sCw6CHgC8AhVgrYy5GZqw1mnQ9KkBuY3U8mLwXmbkHtvgGR0lF+bNwkD3 xwQl7d4pFr2e19L2j83zhv+Fj/JGVx93y7DoO6XG+rqS0taFLCLaBAvl/thnNvt1 ghe3JaWyuIYL5W95Nms0W5owQVFD9kFFQxZGxL1rohM/NijaolPxRZjiZLDtSlIt xGeqjGvPxEe6dxH48sPWKmUg0aT3AtXF+MOD7usRgPMGYrgBaiS4rxycQLlKrtCy zOFJ0m4/WFz5aFj7r/Z5M2NIPBexlUcgm7YjsLjs4FeVA== Received: from smtp1.dismail.de (<unknown> [10.240.26.11]) by mx2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id f7606e0b for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:05:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7f022ed6 for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:05:54 +0100 (CET) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id a55aee71 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:05:54 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:05:53 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: jbranso@HIDDEN Message-ID: <fab87b7457704c9dc4b71786692c9224cde1148b@HIDDEN> TLS-Required: No Subject: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) I'm not really using Guix at this point, because of some weird=20 (and=20probably rare) updating issues (1) but I still do really like=20 the=20project. Also please note that I am barely a guix contributor. I only have a few patches in guix, but I hope Guix continues to succeed! Here's my two cents: Guix sysadmins are really tired of maintaining mumi, right? We want to m= ove that maintence burden onto a forge that is externally maintained. The goal in this proposal is to move guix development to a forge and depr= icate=20 issues.guix.gnu.org,=20and the guix mailing lists: guix-devel@HIDDEN=20 and=20bugs-guix@HIDDEN, guix-patches@HIDDEN Would it be possible to depricate issues.guix.gnu.org, use codeberg as a = forge, and keep the mailing lists guix-devel@HIDDEN, bug-guix@HIDDEN and guix-= patches@HIDDEN?=20=20 That=20way people that perfer mailing lists can continue to use them, and= the people that want to use a forge can. And the guix sysadmins no longer have to maintain issues.guix.gnu.org. The Savannah people would continue to maintain guix's mailing lists. I would request that we at least keep the bugs-guix@HIDDEN I like bein= g able to email and ask for help.=20=20 I=20am going to miss reading guix-devel@HIDDEN That's always a fun pas= t time. :( Joshua 1) https://gnucode.me/guix-deploy-failed-to-update-my-guix-server.html
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 01:20:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 12 21:20:17 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52448 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tsXFB-0000XB-BQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:20:17 -0400 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:51118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tsXF8-0000Wp-M7 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:20:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1741828802; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=wnKkGzebbfP8Ok5rltVs+TV/Vve/qNnjctWcswDGn1Q=; b=HoLXryKhivphFcXn87Db5Avl3MN6PSoyJ1fIORibz1SXyvwAk3+CFbc4ml9wo+I1qaEFvL 5IaJr5isqf/DAU7YeCge7G9nuWO/ZIl/Ymh0lisNvBqFfnlALIR2iDXgNEZQAw91R4eHv6 SFE6WBt9zesVduzUiqU9ymEJMko0skoXo1vUAzzgriJR10oFJLd9J+FMeG3n55tod3zseO OsD6KOU/ibPvpQ4QgPl9rtGvsZSp2nHItm7tMIe7Cbo5uTT3/prHoKiaQ6bU/sSWY4ygWz hF7gOqcSMG6KErRMgUfa/eAGKRWcptWCGY5jJlFQvUE5ENHMXMLgJIqyheyu1g== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 1bb80f90 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 13 Mar 2025 01:20:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN>, Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87h645mn47.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c51vind.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h645mn47.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 01:19:55 +0000 Message-ID: <878qp9ohfo.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > One thing I particularly like is that the final message (well, the one > before 'deleted branch *typst*') shows you the commit that was finally > merged. On the mailing lists, many of the issues are closed with a > message like 'applied with minor tweaks, thanks', and not all committers > will note the commit hash - so you're left grepping for the patch > subject line in `git log` if you want to know what tweaks were made. > Codeberg automatically notes the hash, and you can see the final > iteration just by clicking on it! That is an excellent suggestion. I have registered a feature request at https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76989 . I will implement it, unless we switch to Codeberg and mumi is no more.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Mar 2025 03:31:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 10 23:31:46 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1trqLJ-0005iv-UN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:31:46 -0400 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c]:56292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <vagrant@HIDDEN>) id 1trqLF-0005if-VY for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:31:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=debian.org; s=1.vagrant.user; t=1741663894; bh=3xfNfKmuUzn5gqOnVhzxr1VaXgigk88r77xB9mUGKv8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=HvrljZoIg9l7PmiqKiNcoAEbuPMetZO+dapPxuadKKSraDPy2GlirNaB9O9UNzwr3 QV7krqEI9El0G0KQU3nyXbzorFgdoYdPDtedQ2FfL1+4M1RvoX8D9IYssl4fkO1N8P KINfBWUeD+wJgdGbVu0lh0FX9YWV9WA/Ajrs3rTxuQQJXiKFiAwGKMMDxwfOJLeurA FPgib5nfuv0wLHZFl4F4/LenVfVCcrG4G+HuNBZM0jdJ6egOZ1VPP+1l71/CrzByCM tHZQzUVqKuJB8HEn8U0kYEO4GKB4Bz5qqxL2t7zpJ4eJuVhV9hRC29s72SEa+XVJvX lDFtFuG0X/+Zw== Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50]) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF16E10DA; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 20:31:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@HIDDEN> To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 20:31:28 -0700 Message-ID: <87a59s2qgf.fsf@wireframe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-03-04, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes: >> Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers would >> migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix. >> >> For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after >> acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. On >> that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become >> https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git. A commit would reflect that by >> updating: > > I'd like to suggest extending the 'trial' period to something much > longer, like a year or so, to make sure our parachute is properly > installed before jumping the cliff :-). Letting both systems co-exist > and compete for merit seems a good trial, and we could also extract > useful data (such as how many contributions were merged on one or the > other, etc.). It'd be a bit annoying to keep an eye at two places for > some time, but at least we wouldn't commit to something that may not > scale/match our peculiar requirements as well as we expected. Well, I am on year... 7 ... Seven! ... I had to count it out on my fingers ... of having been using both bugs.debian.org (Debbugs) and salsa.debian.org (Gitlab) concurrently. I have been merging merge-requests via the web interface, using regular old plain "git fetch && git merge && git push" (my favorite by far!), and applying patches via email... Admittedly Debian's Debbugs is not GNU's Debbugs, and Debian's Gitlab is not Codeberg's Forgejo, and Guix is not Debian, but... I suspect there is enough similarity for my experiences to be somewhat relevent to this conversation... My personal conclusion is that these very different models can coexist for... extended periods of time! Is it a bit fractured? Some people prefer one system over the other, so yeah, I guess... Is there duplication of issues? Yup. Sometimes one needs to get forwarded to the other manually. Whee. Do issues get automatically closed on both systems? Usually, if you remember to include the right incantations in your commit messages! Occasionally even if you forget, what magic is that?! Sometimes having an entirely different model is beneficial; just a couple days ago someone reported a bug in diffoscope on IRC, but was having difficulty getting an account set up on salsa.debian.org, but was able to send an email to bugs.debian.org ... so we did not loose track of the issue. Having both options has been more beneficial than harmful, at least in my eyes. Over these seven years I have encountered people who absolutely refuse to deal with email who had interesting contributions and happily submitted stuff via salsa.debian.org. Some people do not have time or interest in getting another account on yet another platform configured and are happy to send a patch via email. I have been accomodating both sorts of people, and all sorts of folks in between (such as myself!), and it is fairly easy because the common denominator is git! So yes, maintaining multiple systems has some serious drawbacks, and I have not actually had to maintain any of the Debian infrastructure really, but transitions are always hard, and some resistance to change is an absolutely reasonable strategy, especially amoung volunteers with limited time. Nearly every time I need to explore some new technology, I grump and squint and maybe even work up a good scowl. I have skipped multiple generations of the shinest new things, only to spend my time on the one that actually stuck around a while. So I understand that reluctance. I have also found new ways of thinking about problems when I explore some new approaches, so I understand that enthusiasm. I do feel, given what I have heard from several people in this discussion, that proposing a flag day with a short time of overlap is going to be very hard for this community, and possibly more divisive than whatever fracturing we might encounter by maintaining two concurrent technical systems over an extended time period... Yet that is at odds with what sounds like people burning out on maintaining parts of the old system as well... mainly from what I have heard, mumi, as the glue making debbugs at all usable? Or is it more than that? Whew! Thanks for making it this far! If you still are craving more, there are a few postscripts below that did not quite fit in anywhere, but I just could not resist... live well, vagrant P.S. I also had used alioth.debian.org ~2004-2018(?), which just so happens to be based off of the same code base that savannah.gnu.org was (which was based off of a version of sourceforge.net I had used ~2000-2002)... also concurrently with using Debbugs. So forgive me if I sway under a mild bit of deja-vu. P.P.S. I do think a huge difference between Debian's Debbugs and the way Guix uses GNU's Debbugs is that Guix has precisely two buckets (that I am aware of) ... "guix" for bug reports and "guix-patches" for patches. In contrast, Debian has approximately one bucket for each upstream source. The difference of granularity can be somewhat met with various forms of tagging, searching, etc. but it is also more cumbersome and requires some additional development (e.g. mumi) to abstract that stuff out. P.P.P.S. Guix has subjected itself to complicated policy choices that are not limitations of Debbugs, per se, like sending one patch per email for a patch series, which increase the complication for some submitters and reviewers alike (perhaps limitations of email size limits have required this, though). --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCZ8+ukAAKCRDcUY/If5cW qpScAQDFKDgPV4hm5AFNGWfRlp1xA/qkop8x/4G3rH5l9skFkAD/bBpX79wWPi8W gHUVQb0HqYwBaclgGAxTjeyyBpQ7cgc= =G7BJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2025 22:44:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 10 18:44:43 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40307 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1trlrW-0000jT-72 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 18:44:42 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:47648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1trlrS-0000j9-PZ for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 18:44:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3298443; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:44:31 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: hera.aquilenet.fr; none X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id bSYFXu6olQFr; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:44:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF8E5309; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:44:30 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> Subject: Forges and automation In-Reply-To: <m11pv63854.fsf@HIDDEN> (Konrad Hinsen's message of "Sun, 09 Mar 2025 09:44:55 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <m11pv63854.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:44:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87msdsjyk2.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D3298443 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.82 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[99.99%]; NEURAL_SPAM(2.92)[0.975]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(1.00)[subject]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[fastmail.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[fastmail.net]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Rspamd-Action: greylist X-Spam-Level: ***** X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hello Konrad, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> skribis: > Lack of automation: I haven't seen much discussion about this aspect so > far. Automating what, for who? Who needs to be able to control and > fine-tune automation? Who needs to understand what's ha [...] Content analysis details: (1.7 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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[185.233.100.1 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) Hello Konrad, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> skribis: > Lack of automation: I haven't seen much discussion about this aspect so > far. Automating what, for who? Who needs to be able to control and > fine-tune automation? Who needs to understand what's happening? > At what stages in onboarding does this matter? This phrase refers to the bots and CI systems many developers have become used to. Here=E2=80=99s an example: https://gitlab.inria.fr/guix-hpc/guix-hpc/-/merge_requests/159 The build status of the packaging changes are reported in the discussion; the GitLab pipeline goes green upon success. (Romain is working on that sort of feedback for Forgejo instances in Cuirass though the basics are already in place as noted in the GCD.) A =E2=80=9Cmodern forge=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t necessary for this, as https= ://qa.guix.gnu.org has shown. But just like it=E2=80=99s easier to write and maintain a brows= er written in Rust than one written in assembly, it=E2=80=99s easier to integr= ate qa.guix, Cuirass, and similar tools with a forge than with email. This workflow also eases onboarding: without knowing anything about the project=E2=80=99s infra, the contributor gets feedback about their submissi= on right where they posted it. And it works: no worries about MUAs wrapping lines, patches as MIME attachments vs. email body, etc. With that in place, it becomes possible to have an auto-update bot like that of Nixpkgs: https://nix-community.github.io/nixpkgs-update/r-ryantm/#r-ryantm =E2=80=A6 which creates pull requests for package updates: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pulls/r-ryantm =E2=80=A6 which are then built, with package maintainers being pinged upon success. Again this could be done over email or UUCP, but having the interface and semantics of a forge makes those things easier. Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2025 22:18:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 10 18:18:01 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1trlRg-0007yC-LW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 18:18:00 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:59110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1trlRc-0007xm-6Z for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 18:17:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC70443; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:17:48 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: hera.aquilenet.fr; none X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zd4gVC9JGXM; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:17:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C79D032E; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:17:46 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87ecz78l2s.fsf@HIDDEN> (Cayetano Santos's message of "Sat, 08 Mar 2025 18:54:19 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ecz78l2s.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:17:45 +0100 Message-ID: <87r034led2.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BDC70443 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.10 / 15.00]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[99.99%]; NEURAL_HAM(-3.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: ------ X-Rspamd-Action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix-devel@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Hi, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN> skribis: > This point might become relevant at some point ahead on time. Do we > have any reference of a successful migration to another gitlab / > forgejo instance ? I=E2=80=99m thinking here about the long term retrie= val of > all information we will deposit at codeberg during the incoming years. > No one knows what the future will provide, but I think, from my > perspective, that a complete demo exercise might be helpful to this > respect before going any further. We have experience migrating from GitHub (Guix-Science, etc.) and from a GitLab instance (Guix-Past, etc.) to Codeberg: this is almost lossless conversion. Migrating between Forgejo instances would be trivial: Forgejo supports it as well. We don=E2=80=99t know what the future will look like, but given the rich interface and structured data, I=E2=80=99m confident that it will always be possible to extract it and feed it into other similar systems. Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Mar 2025 13:00:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 10 09:00:36 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1trckG-0003r8-6c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 09:00:36 -0400 Received: from sender4-of-o55.zoho.com ([136.143.188.55]:21581) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1trckD-0003qx-Ka for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 09:00:34 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741611608; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=DGuX2mjjHC7mHV6tsu6XeFNVkVUdZUU5o1RISsTs0SRKZSVsV4BrgeIvRwgY25Og+ugCIS5dAw+58lYswRBEkS7DkTMLvkcPJ/vY8ju5nI+n2tJI3C0MEf+1C8nmjYaxEKFpIi8GuX5K3N7e/f5zo3qgA4dlPkI4Yquejsa0UlE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741611608; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=d+93g6sUPogjYE0PskyoUmeKi62/BfW5bsRw8Kr2ghk=; b=Yxl4kJMkTp0RrOj2cO9pvhhv2ruF+iWEC7dYBLBCeXkOkaED/OacFe8KHKjIIPp4d1TXL7KxwEbzsgkBcFSdY+Si2WQe8R9Rrz6Fp7N504U5q9mfYSlWA7QMU5fu4y9yWXdBs09opGx11wKOYAJ4XupuL2PycrQyr/G4Eughf5s= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741611608; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=d+93g6sUPogjYE0PskyoUmeKi62/BfW5bsRw8Kr2ghk=; b=Kwv9k7Huho3omeUu5MctWTXS/ORsjU+wFdFsJjMCY6OMkOlmBta1lYkoJSWEE345 izrP8wX5xHUgkJIqyelywSPuBCPlbiiUmPYpMe25/GCRF9mgptFThMU18/6b2/tDiig va4gvXbI55y1xK3DWYLWFk/XsFnSHQb8tZPR4ELY= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741611605344295.9392656519851; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 06:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87frjl6paj.fsf@HIDDEN> (Simon Tournier's message of "Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:30:44 +0100") References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87wmd33jg5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87jz926y93.fsf@HIDDEN> <874j062ads.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tt853p28.fsf@HIDDEN> <87y0xgyat1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frjl6paj.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:59:59 +0100 Message-ID: <87msdtnir4.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: arunisaac@HIDDEN, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, ludo@HIDDEN, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>, Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN>, slade@HIDDEN, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> writes: > On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 19:07, Ricardo Wurmus=20 > <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> https://codeberg.org/org/guix-science/pulls?\ >> type=3Dreview_requested&\ >> sort=3Drecentupdate&\ >> state=3Dopen&\ >> q=3D&fuzzy=3Dtrue > > For instance, this is listed for me: > > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science-nonfree/pulls/30 > > and=E2=80=A6 > >> Reviews can automatically be requested via the CODEOWNERS file,=20 >> so=20 >> I think moulding our workflow around this overview would be an=20 >> obvious improvement. > > =E2=80=A6and maybe I misread CODEOWNERS [1], but I miss why this PR is=20 > listed > for me. > > 1:=20 > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science-nonfree/src/branch/master/= CODEOWNERS I don't see that your review has been requested for this PR. No=20 idea what's up there. --=20 Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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Hi Ricardo,
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 19:07, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote:
> https://codeberg.org/org/guix-science/pulls?\
> type=3Dreview_requested&\
> sort=3Drecentupdate&\
> state=3Dopen&\
> q=3D&fuzzy=3Dtrue
For instance, this is listed for me:
https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science-nonfree/pulls/30
and=E2=80=A6
> Reviews can automatically be requested via the CODEOWNERS file, so=20
> I think moulding our workflow around this overview would be an=20
> obvious improvement.
=E2=80=A6and maybe I misread CODEOWNERS [1], but I miss why this PR is list=
ed
for me.
1: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science-nonfree/src/branch/master=
/CODEOWNERS
>> Somehow, we need something more gradual. For instance, 2 or 3 steps
>> with concrete and detailed milestones; targeting the end of =E2=80=9Cpat=
ch by
>> email=E2=80=9D something as next December.
>>
>> Why? Because we need to learn more where the friction could be, what
>> is really lacking, what makes too much hurdle, etc. And adapt
>> accordingly.
>
> This sounds reasonable, but perhaps the migration is not quite a=20
> big as we think.
Yeah good ol=E2=80=99 resistance to change. ;-)
However, the GCD reads
Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers wou=
ld
migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
and we are just starting to discover what could be done with the API or
how to effectively improve the identified bottleneck with emails, but in
the same time, it also introduces annoyances.
For example, one thing is the backup of all what is going to happen in
Codeberg: all the history of PRs, revisions, discussions, etc.
We jump in without a concrete implementation for such backup. Bad
scenario, imagine: couple of months later =E2=80=93 we will have several op=
en
and closed PRs =E2=80=93 Codeberg suddenly disappears for whatever unexpect=
ed
reasons: How do we get all the data associated to our open and closed
PRs?
> What do the current=20
> committers absolutely require of the forge to be able to complete=20
> at least as many reviews as they do today?
For me,
a) work offline and by batch;
b) comment on patches without the web-interface; comment from Emacs;
c) being able to personally tag for later retrieving back;
d) bridge with Org-mode.
If I am transparent, the biggest annoyance for me when reviewing isn=E2=80=
=99t
about the workflow but it=E2=80=99s about the CI and/or QA. In other words,
this =E2=80=9CBig Move=E2=80=9D will introduce much more frictions on my si=
de than
effectively smooth.
My main issues with CI and/or QA is that it=E2=80=99s much too slow to work=
on.
Not slow to process the queue =E2=80=93 it might be but hey! =E2=80=93 no, =
it=E2=80=99s about
too slow to query; especially via the web-interface. Well, I do not
know what has changed over the past year, but now for me ci.guix is
almost unusable.
And the =E2=80=9CBig Move=E2=80=9D will change nothing about the data gener=
ated by CI
and/or QA. It could only ease the bridge, IIUC.
> (I don't like that Codeberg requires an=20
> account, even for the AGit workflow, but I think there could be=20
> workarounds, and I don't consider this more than a minor=20
> inconvenience.)
Somehow, I agree. The 4 items above are =E2=80=9Cminor inconvenience=E2=80=
=9D because
it=E2=80=99s possible to find and/or implement workarounds. However, it do=
es
not appear to me doable considering the time frame that the GCD proposes
with the =E2=80=9CMigration Path=E2=80=9D.
To say it explicitly, these 4 items are =E2=80=9Cno go=E2=80=9D for me. No=
t that I
would block the GCD but for sure I will stay aside =E2=80=93 and for being
consistent, I=E2=80=99ll ask to suspend my write access =E2=80=93 the time =
to have
something that fulfills these requirements.
No big deal, I barely review these days after all. :-)
>> All that to say, I am not convinced that completely jumping to
>> something fully new for most of us is a good approach; especially
>> when the same us already know the pitfalls of our tools or behaviour.
>
> A complication of a partial move (perhaps just the r-team and the=20
> python-team) is that it starts an extended period of confusion for=20
> contributors. We would have to document the preferences of each=20
> team. I don't know if the GCD process is laid out for per-team=20
> decisions like this.
Well, maybe the level of team isn=E2=80=99t the good one for such partial m=
ove.
For sure, I find awkward to jump in the unknown without any prior
minimal experience with PR workflow for almost all the people who have
experience with email workflow and are reviewing.
Just to mention. What Ludo did months ago, Ludo tried Codeberg, then
Ludo moved the channels guix-science, then Romain adapted Cuirass =E2=80=93=
or
maybe Romain adapted Cuirass before the guix-science channels move,
anyway=E2=80=93, then ~100 PRs has been submitted. Etc. All that creates =
this
minimal experience.
Now, when Ludo says: it=E2=80=99s okish enough and it=E2=80=99ll be fine wi=
th me, yes I
trust their words. Because they are somehow backed.
How many of us have a same minimal experience with PR?
Somehow, it=E2=80=99s a biased decision: Here is the way you know well and =
thus
the way you concretely know the frictions and annoyances. Compared to
that, there is the way you imagine and thus the way you hypothetically
speculate how smooth it will be or how worse it=E2=80=99ll become.
Concretely, it does not sound to me reasonable to say: Hey after the
23rd of May, all will happen on Codeberg, post-scriptum: good luck! :-)
I find more reasonable to have 2-3 milestones. And we also must discuss
with Codeberg on concrete numbers because that=E2=80=99s not an unilateral
decision, IMHO.
All that to say, yes I totally agree, the best approach seems:
What do the current=20
committers absolutely require of the forge to be able to complete=20
at least as many reviews as they do today?
Cheers,
simon
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN>, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>,
Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <874j02mvwn.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN>
<874j02mvwn.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:59:28 +0100
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Hi,
On Sun, 09 Mar 2025 at 08:48, 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> wrote:
> https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/delightful-forgejo#clients
> https://github.com/magit/forge
>
> I haven't tried these, and no doubt there will be shortcomings.
Maybe you should. :-)
For instance, magit-forge does not work with Codeberg although their
documentation says so. Well, neither Ludo or I have succeeded in
configuring it, although we asked advice on Mastodon [1,2].
For the rest, I would not repeat [3,4]. :-)
Cheers,
simon
PS: Without any willing to be harsh, if I might, in order to keep the
discussion fruitful, I would refrain to raise speculations and
instead strive on arguments backed by experience. Somehow, let
avoid to oppose pure personal feelings and instead share various
angles or perspectives with the hope to get a common understanding.
--
1: https://toot.aquilenet.fr/@civodul/113560896535810894
2: https://social.sciences.re/@zimoun/113561826489905430
3: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Tue, 04 Mar 2025 20:22:59 +0900
id:8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-03
https://yhetil.org/guix/8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN
4: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:39:56 +0100
id:87r03a5a8j.fsf@HIDDEN
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-03
https://yhetil.org/guix/87r03a5a8j.fsf@HIDDEN
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[194.254.61.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3912c015d2bsm14404542f8f.43.2025.03.10.05.31.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Mar 2025 05:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <Z8sY1mUseNtbQmh7@jurong> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> <Z8sY1mUseNtbQmh7@jurong> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:45:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87zfht6u5w.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Andreas, On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 17:03, Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN> wrote: > Which says nothing about the experience on a forge, logically. If I might, I encourage you to subscribe to all the guix-science channels. This way, you will have an foretaste: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. :-) Cheers, simon
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:05:08 +0000
From: indieterminacy <indieterminacy@HIDDEN>
To: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
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Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>,
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=?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
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Hello all,
Reading a random fediverse thread, I came across some aspects about
growth of issues and governance around duplications and feature
requests:
https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/114131748974841455
```
What I gather from the replies is that better issue tracking should work
with at least 3 separate queues:
- Bugs (things that don't work as they should, breaking functionality,
can be fixed relatively fast)
- Feature requests (Things that don't exist yet in the codebase but
could be added)
- Refactoring (Things that can be bugs or features, but to solve them a
redesign/rewrite/refactor of certain parts of the codebase is needed)
Triage should decide where a new issue belongs.
```
https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/114132897616035930
```
often issue trackers are used for feature requests. I think it is
reasonable for those to stay open for long-ish periods of time as part
of a long term roadmap or a help-wanted list. I agree those should be
clearly distinguished from bugs, but sometimes the line between "missing
feature" and "bug" blurs.
```
https://kolektiva.social/@cscott/114132771181298941
Is there a need to provide more formal clarifications regarding
collective expectations and emphases?
Are there any case studies we are using to inform such outcomes?
In particular, is there anything distinct to the Guix experience that we
need to be mindful of?
Kind regards,
Jonathan
On 2025-03-07 06:18, Divya Ranjan wrote:
> Hello Carlo,
>
>> I don't think this is a fair summary of the goal. The first sentence
>> of
>> the GCD[1] is:
>>
>> The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several
>> challenges:
>> difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and
>> labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation.
>>
>> Of these, only "difficult onboarding" is about newcomers. Your
>> proposal
>> (which I might describe as "proxy Codeberg into debbugs") involves
>> building new infrastructure without helping the other issues.
>
> You are correct, Carlo, the GCD does have multiple goals. But in my
> email I also elaborated how the onboarding issue is a high-priority
> task, reflective from the last survey and also something that can be
> achieved without risking too much. I believe we are at a probabilistic
> trade-off decision here, do we wish to achieve all the goals, including
> a complete change of infrastructure, workflow etc. in the proposed
> timeline of 15 days or so, and thus incurring a lot of problems that a
> team of committers would’ve to put a lot of effort into resolving? Or,
> do we wish to slowly achieve some of the goals, take those goals as a
> litmus test for the overall proposal and proceed gradually? I believe
> latter would be a safer bet, with less to risk immediately and
> opportunity to fix mistakes from feedback.
>
> So, yes, my proposal cannot resolve all the goals, but I am trying to
> find a way to integrate what we have with what we might switch to. I
> might be at fault here, and feel free to elaborate on that, such as how
> can we approach the proposed quick migration to Codeberg while having a
> huge backlog of patches?
>
>>> Since Codeberg already allows to communicate in issues over email,
>>> i.e. you can respond to someone in a particular issue over email,
>>> this
>>> shouldn’t be too difficult to arrange.
>>
>> This is not true today. While Forgejo supports replying via email,
>> Codeberg does not have that enabled due to bugs. They have an issue
>> tracking it: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/1562
>
> Thank you for this. I had tried it on a Forgejo repository, not a
> Codeberg one, so I believed the same could be possible here as well.
> From the discussions I see, if we spend enough time with them--which we
> need to do either ways--for the migration, they might get it working?
> Does not look far from possible to me.
>
>> Even if it was true, the big disconnect here would be around
>> commenting
>> on specific lines of code. An email with a comment on a patch would
>> come
>> through as a top-level comment on the PR, which is not natural in that
>> context.
>
> Also thank you for bringing this issue, indeed this is a crucial
> functionality. But to be clear, this is specifically for a
> pull-request. The issues functionality is totally doable out of the box
> with Forgejo, we just need to make it work with Codeberg and polish it.
> With regards to the PR, one has to remember that the entire process
> needs to be wrapped around Forgejo’s API, not as our used to method of
> plain text. We’d be parsing JSON to-and-fro. For "reviewing a Pull
> Request" in Codeberg methodology, Forgejo provides a
> =/repos/{owner}/{repo}/pulls/{index}/reviews= API[0] to initiate a
> review. This API will take the comments from the patch in the Email,
> place them in the "body" string of the JSON, and the respective
> positions from the diff, the commit_id and so on. I agree it is
> non-trivial, but so is switching a workflow that has been in-place for
> years, also a non-trivial task. I think the API has enough things for
> what we need. And again, we don’t need all of them, we only require
> implementing those for now that bridge existing email workflow and the
> newcomers’ onboarding. Merging, for example, I propose to be done in
> the usual way of taking a patch and applying it. Eventually once we
> have less of a backlog, and more ease of migration, one might consider
> moving these core tasks to the Codeberg as well.
>
> Either ways, we are at the crossroads and we need to decide which
> trade-off is worth the pain. I believe it is *not* certain that once we
> entirely migrate to Codeberg, the goals of "complexity" and "lack of
> legibility" would be immediately reaped. It creates a possibility of
> enjoying them, but given the assumption that the switch from existing
> architecture is smooth. And, once again, if we were a relatively
> smaller project such as the Guix-Science, this could’ve been a decision
> much simpler and with less at stake, but that is not the case. But I
> think it *is* certain that if we take an approach that doesn’t directly
> replace one workflow with another, but bridges the new one with the
> previous one, the committers will have a better way to switch. Simply
> because they can try to finish the backlog using the existing workflow,
> and the new patches can come to them with that as well. Where we go
> from there, can be decided upon how good the litmus test goes.
>
> [0]: https://codeberg.org/api/swagger#/repository/repoCreatePullReview
>
> Regards,
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[14.139.162.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-22410a91cffsm57436645ad.174.2025.03.09.00.49.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 09 Mar 2025 00:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> To: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 08:48:56 +0000 Message-ID: <874j02mvwn.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Divya Ranjan via Guix-patches via <guix-patches@HIDDEN> writes: > I would be open to a consideration of using BugZilla or Gerrit for > that matter, even though I=E2=80=99m not used to them, the possibility of > working with them without a browser, motivates me to learn them. Ignore me if I'm not adding anything to the discussion here, but I'd like to remind everyone that there is also the possibility of working with Codeberg without a browser: https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/delightful-forgejo#clients https://github.com/magit/forge I haven't tried these, and no doubt there will be shortcomings. But both Forgejo and its clients are all open-source, so it's possible to work on and improve them. Speaking for myself at least, I know that if I could find the time, I'd enjoy improving any of the existing CLI or Emacs interfaces to a modern forge with a seemingly-bright future (federation!), knowing that my work would benefit the countless open-source projects that use it, and the modern FOSS movement by extension. I can't really say the same for improving my personal email-based workflow, whose setup is too complex for me to expect anyone else to ever use it. Or for setting up and/or working on Bugzilla, or Gerrit, or Debbugs... these are all great projects, I'm sure, but they're not likely to have a lot of new adopters, which means that the impact of improving them is going to be much smaller. I realize that everyone's motivation comes from a different place, but I think it's worth looking at the benefit this proposal could bring to the FOSS community at large. We have a lot of active and competent power users, and an active and competent userbase is the biggest asset for any project. If we use program 'X' as a core part of our workflow, then program 'X' gains all those users. Obviously improving Forgejo is far from the first priority for us, but it is a nice bonus, and makes me feel a lot more positive about this proposal.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Sun, 9 Mar 2025 04:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 09:44:55 +0100 Message-ID: <m11pv63854.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi everyone, A few high-level comments, to prevent us from getting lost in technical details. Quoting the summary of the GCD: The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several challenges: difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation. All these lead to an experience that contributors often find frustrating and hinders quality assurance efforts. Onboarding: this means new community members, and it suggests, though not explicitly saying it, growth. Is growth what we want? Or merely replacement of people leaving or reducing their efforts? If we want growth, how quickly and up to where? Do we want to operate like the Linux kernel (recently cited here), in that most contributors are employees of tech companies? If not, what is the profile of contributors that we wish to attract? Which others are we willing to give up on in exchange? (I am thinking of those who are not willing to create a Codeberg account, for example.) Is onboarding only about recruiting new community members, or also about mentoring newcomers on their path from users to contributors to reviewers and maintainers? I suppose it is. Then which step is the bottleneck? My impression from this discussion: from contributor to reviewer. Which is why I personally favor this proposal, because I see the current workflow as most cumbersome for code reviewing. Lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and labor-intensive infrastructure: these are more technical motivations. It's the current maintainers that are most exposed to these issues. Not me, so I won't comment, other than highlighting that we should listen to the current and past maintainers. Lack of automation: I haven't seen much discussion about this aspect so far. Automating what, for who? Who needs to be able to control and fine-tune automation? Who needs to understand what's happening? At what stages in onboarding does this matter? Cheers, Konrad.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2025 17:54:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 08 12:54:27 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqyNW-0003oK-Mq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:54:27 -0500 Received: from confino.investici.org ([93.190.126.19]:53451) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <csantosb@HIDDEN>) id 1tqyNS-0003o6-SS for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:54:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=inventati.org; s=stigmate; t=1741456461; bh=4nQ6dxDUK5pwBlJouW+fhnp+QUWXEp/iJ1/hphIF5Lc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Date:From; b=A8mmuDzxHwW7hpKkhMV6i3vgeTFijACD+UzOWprm+UCgBKmrfhksv7HYMw/TYF6Aw ujuKgCymgwLAXfUt1i8deXHqUhu+EPvsPDl8NpQGFX7OqbzL2nBjLRTrFPvunaqQBi dHH+6WGbWygSPPkF9zyvsB3wyks+0GZ4uCX8/+xE= Received: from mx1.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by confino.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z99lK0c2hz11Q4; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 17:54:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [93.190.126.19] (mx1.investici.org [93.190.126.19]) (Authenticated sender: cayetano.santos@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z99lJ4w1Hz11Pv; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 17:54:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN> To: ludo@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.9; emacs 29.4 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 18:54:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87ecz78l2s.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix-devel@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, Thanks for this, it is remarkable and obvious the amount of time you have spend thinking about it in deep before submitting the GCD. However, after a last read to the proposal, a question arises in my mind. I haven=E2=80=99t found any reference to it in this long thread (m= aybe I missed it ?). > # Cost of Reverting This point might become relevant at some point ahead on time. Do we have any reference of a successful migration to another gitlab / forgejo instance ? I=E2=80=99m thinking here about the long term retrieva= l of all information we will deposit at codeberg during the incoming years. No one knows what the future will provide, but I think, from my perspective, that a complete demo exercise might be helpful to this respect before going any further. Thanks again, =2D- Cayetano Santos . gpg: CCB8 1842 F9D7 058E CD67 377A BF5C DF4D F6BF 6682 key: meta.sr.ht/~csantosb.pgp --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EARYKADUWIQTMuBhC+dcFjs1nN3q/XN9N9r9mggUCZ8yESxccY3NhbnRvc2JA aW52ZW50YXRpLm9yZwAKCRC/XN9N9r9mghsPAP4sSTL8w1/8dSDc2taNQvrtY6oG GVMOID3mdRqm4Re7dgD/csjPVNE+3rV/Fd7lWkiCmkodx+SIkRMhtTyxMDDrUwA= =r+OO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:34:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:34:27 -0500 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Message-ID: <Z8tYUw2FzQRL3C8n@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyesoeut.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87cyesoeut.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN>, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Fri, Mar 07, 2025 at 01:49:46PM -0500, Suhail Singh wrote: > While I agree in general, I don't understand the specific point you were > making. Was it that Linux with its greater funding has someone to > manage something like Bugzilla, where Guix may not? Linux contributors and maintainers are paid to be persistent in reviewing and landing patches, regardless of the tools and workflow. There are thousands of them, mostly professionals. As Guix's number 8 commit author and committer (two different stats, both #8), I can say that I'd be doing Much More these days if it was my job and not a personal hobby. git shortlog -ns git shortlog -ncs
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 19:03:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 14:03:43 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqcz0-0002Q6-TH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:03:43 -0500 Received: from latitanza.investici.org ([82.94.249.234]:42231) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <divya@HIDDEN>) id 1tqcyy-0002Px-Pa for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 14:03:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=subvertising.org; s=stigmate; t=1741374218; bh=e6U6CuKW5e8QTg49ctC3lBmYPS9ZhoSliT6X1pSePdU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=fcXgMWYBGj4+tzTNr0AbfHaQ8bnByjWBedz0DPsgc8VHFBwdp1LrVBmD9qCfij2Oa nxPmuu7voBGDis0iv+zww8WQp8wVDfcAh5ZecCXAjAWrDtUv6ixekupctODsA1qWp1 /DqwtZ+dC+wUnCLIA2GV0NL5BP7mrfVtfXbZqOl0= Received: from mx3.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by latitanza.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8bKk63LNzGp8J; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 19:03:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.94.249.234] (mx3.investici.org [82.94.249.234]) (Authenticated sender: divya@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z8bKh6ZrLzGp6Z; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 19:03:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87cyesoeut.fsf@HIDDEN> (Suhail Singh's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:49:46 -0500") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyesoeut.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 19:03:32 +0000 Message-ID: <87r038d5ob.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> writes: > Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I had to realize that Linux gets a *lot* more in funding and >> infrastructure than Guix. > > While I agree in general, I don't understand the specific point you were > making. Was it that Linux with its greater funding has someone to > manage something like Bugzilla, where Guix may not? That, and they have the freedom to not worry if it=E2=80=99s costing them a= bit too much, both financially and workload wise. I don=E2=80=99t think an= y of the kernel subsystem maintainers are heavily working on the infrastruc= ture, it is simply provided to them from Linux Foundation. I think if a lot= of our infrastructural worries could be handled by some other entity while= the committers focus on contributing to Guix, it=E2=80=99d been much easie= r. As much as we like to talk of Savannah being unstable, it is managed by les= s than 5 people at FSFSysOps. Last month I recommended to communicate or wo= rk with them[0], but I don=E2=80=99t think anyone wanted that. The degree t= o which a workflow is smooth depends not only on the workflow itself but on= how it=E2=80=99s being supported.=20 [0]: https://yhetil.org/guix/177B8808-9D2B-43ED-BC6D-02F1DAC36795@subvertis= ing.org/ --=20 Divya Ranjan, Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software. PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:49:57 -0800 (PST) From: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> To: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> (Divya Ranjan's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 18:33:32 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:49:46 -0500 Message-ID: <87cyesoeut.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> writes: > I had to realize that Linux gets a *lot* more in funding and > infrastructure than Guix. While I agree in general, I don't understand the specific point you were making. Was it that Linux with its greater funding has someone to manage something like Bugzilla, where Guix may not? > I don=E2=80=99t think we have that many degrees of freedom here, so we ne= ed to > be careful about our resources, and the work of volunteers and > committers. Agreed. --=20 Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 18:33:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 13:33:45 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50013 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqcW1-0006A3-8e for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:33:45 -0500 Received: from devianza.investici.org ([198.167.222.108]:28497) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <divya@HIDDEN>) id 1tqcVx-00069o-JX for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:33:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=subvertising.org; s=stigmate; t=1741372419; bh=n8jxwIAbClexngX68rTgXTsWmFdjflxhRQnW0n9/SwY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=LRfbABqdacgmwe58arZRHkXLgkgk6TBhnT4Lj5KoEnN4OVOGD/vta9HDAtRxKag65 rUi15zcvQHAAIEWRbFBioj1ibMKeTGzVaWByWciyzxUwTQ1aiQbqJsVbNoSbpSWvQj x+P6RHreyMELTnz8ox/5IMwnZr5Sf/rDNChRUUqg= Received: from mx2.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by devianza.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8Zg74gLSz6vJD; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:33:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [198.167.222.108] (mx2.investici.org [198.167.222.108]) (Authenticated sender: divya@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z8Zg630c2z6vCy; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:33:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> (Suhail Singh's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 12:40:24 -0500") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 18:33:32 +0000 Message-ID: <87v7skd72b.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello Suhail, > "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> writes: > >> The email-based workflow worked well enough in the early days, but >> Guix outgrew it 5+ years ago. > > Do you also believe that the Linux kernel has outgrown the "email-based > workflow"? If not, what makes things different for Guix, in your > opinion? > Despite me being in support of a workflow that doesn=E2=80=99t require open= ing a browser, while thinking about how Linux kernel does it and Guix, I ha= d to realize that Linux gets a *lot* more in funding and infrastructure tha= n Guix. Of course part of it is because of sheer technological necessity of= handling a 30M LOC project that=E2=80=99s used by everyone. But it=E2=80= =99s also because they *can* get it, through the help of Linux Foundation a= nd so on. I don=E2=80=99t think we have that many degrees of freedom here, so we need= to be careful about our resources, and the work of volunteers and committe= rs. I would be open to a consideration of using BugZilla or Gerrit for that= matter, even though I=E2=80=99m not used to them, the possibility of worki= ng with them without a browser, motivates me to learn them. Regards, --=20 Divya Ranjan, Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software. PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 18:18:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 13:18:40 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqcHQ-0005U7-Bc for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:18:40 -0500 Received: from confino.investici.org ([2a11:7980:1::2:0]:57357) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <divya@HIDDEN>) id 1tqcHN-0005Tw-VQ for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:18:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=subvertising.org; s=stigmate; t=1741371514; bh=VgFxcypuz8ddFGX8zf1/XL3X7yfWdFT8xz6IXTATSPE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=j63FDDF35OE3v5tWY8mkhxWf1srTsRLe8/HjEPWveoVKeXXEdyLjrtvCpKdHplJ2t 8GoMJwzcARvGmMjAlCBgYWp2kyY9u2Ll27AgXVHVSVUEiyCxx4XMFr+Slq2Lxge/T6 7Cf66J1BAMNMKLKPlxA5NDselChXopebPI06FJaA= Received: from mx1.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by confino.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8ZKk3Prrz11Rk; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [93.190.126.19] (mx1.investici.org [93.190.126.19]) (Authenticated sender: divya@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z8ZKh533Fz11Rf; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:18:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87msdw51z6.fsf@HIDDEN> (Simon Tournier's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 15:50:37 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> <87msdw51z6.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 18:18:26 +0000 Message-ID: <87zfhwd7rh.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello Simon, > Hi Ricardo, > > On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 10:21, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote: >> Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> writes: >> >>> We have a *humongous* backlog of patches, [...] >> >>> [...] we host a backend service that regularly checks the Codeberg >>> repository for any new issues or PRs and then communicates to us >>> through the Codeberg=E2=80=99s Forgejo API [0] the content of said issu= es and >>> PRs. The data received from the API then gets directed to our Debbugs >>> or Mumi backend, which parses the information from it and opens a new >>> Debbugs issue for it. Thus, for every issue opened on Codeberg, we >>> have a mirrored Debbugs issue [...] >> >> So at the end we'd have an even larger backlog of patches, and spread >> across two systems...? And where do we source the time and motivation >> to hack on yet another piece of software? > > I proposed a similar one-way bridge here [1]. And obviously, my > proposal is also to volunteer for helping in implementing in Mumi > backend. Apologies Simon, I had totally missed your mail and proposition. I came up = with this earlier today. But I agree entirely with the proposal, and volunt= eer to work on such tooling as well. Regards, --=20 Divya Ranjan, Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software. PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 18:13:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 13:13:00 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqcBw-0005Fd-7f for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:13:00 -0500 Received: from latitanza.investici.org ([2001:888:2000:56::19]:48617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <divya@HIDDEN>) id 1tqcBt-0005FS-4j for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:12:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=subvertising.org; s=stigmate; t=1741371175; bh=gU7W1BCfy7XfVAl8qpwgMPh8rqDCW1vLV6ZoQVMJBGM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=NMJaCZt89Cf4omqrQcqS0Uhsls/CY2+iNifm/ldK9MPKu/nSgfj0w98HZT9RSesgm uD6su1BEoWl8bjdrBape5eAJOiMYpwQ0tD4cwmRsAq2zepM5+t0qclq7XCkK7lWh8x OqaGld/eByDSOTTCf286CKQOIppvI1iksyIcGWSA= Received: from mx3.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by latitanza.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8ZCC4pZdzGp6M; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:12:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.94.249.234] (mx3.investici.org [82.94.249.234]) (Authenticated sender: divya@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z8ZC96jf0zGp6L; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 18:12:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:21:48 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 18:12:49 +0000 Message-ID: <874j04emla.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello Ricardo, >> We have a *humongous* backlog of patches, [...] > >> [...] we host a backend service that regularly checks the Codeberg >> repository for any new issues or PRs and then communicates to us >> through the Codeberg=E2=80=99s Forgejo API [0] the content of said issues >> and >> PRs. The data received from the API then gets directed to our >> Debbugs >> or Mumi backend, which parses the information from it and opens a >> new >> Debbugs issue for it. Thus, for every issue opened on Codeberg, we >> have a mirrored Debbugs issue [...] > > So at the end we'd have an even larger backlog of patches, and spread > across two systems...? [...] We would have that regardless of whether one follows my proposition or not.= The old backlog is going nowhere. Even if we make a full-switch to Codeber= g immediately, the committers would either have to work on both things tena= ciously as they (committers such as Maxime) get used to an entirely new wor= kflow. What is the probability that such an immediate increase in responsib= ilities will not lead to a further increase of existing backlog? I don=E2=80=99t think anything can solve the backlog quickly, what I propos= ed was with the intent of solving the issue of committers not having to lea= rn a new workflow altogether to work on the backlog, ergo, not having anoth= er hurdle to it amidst a list of others. > And where do we source the time and motivation > to hack on yet another piece of software? Outside contributions to > mumi have been *very* few in all these years; that's not for a lack of > problems we've had with the system, and for once it's not for a lack > of > review either. Indeed, that is a problem. It was a mere proposition, so if enough people w= ant it to happen, we can have it :) > As a long time contributor with commit access I have the impression > that > people new to Guix hold the assumption that the current system and > workflow works for long time contributors. I may just be wildly > incompetent, but for me it most assuredly does not work in enabling > reviews. I mostly review patches that were sent to me directly or > that > happen to solve a problem I'm trying to solve as part of my > maintainance > work. I acknowledge your experience, but we heard from others such as Maxime how = to them it might require learning and changing the workflow. So the people = for whom the email-based workflow works isn=E2=80=99t really a null set. > The haphazard GNU fork of Debbugs also lacks a number of features, has > odd unaddressed bugs, lacks people who even understand in what ways it > differs from the Debian version, lacks people working on improving it > and addressing these issues. (There is literally *one* person who > keeps > the lights on.) > > It does not even do simple things like delivering notifications to > *everyone* who participates in an issue discussion. This is the > reason > for the sudden eery silence that can be seen in many issues. > > I honestly have my doubts that the move to Codeberg would > automatically > solve all of my workflow issues, but let's please not eulogize the > email-based workflow too much. It makes sense to me to base our > efforts > on a system that is *actively* developed by a *team* of aligned free > software hackers. > > I don't see an active future for the GNU fork of Debbugs, and I think > it > is not a good use of our time to work on a system that won't improve > unless we burden ourselves with even more work (like taking over > hosting > and administration). I'd rather work on Guix. By all means, but I think you are confusing a plea for not breaking certain= people=E2=80=99s workflow as a means to "eulogize" something. The goal her= e is to simply not put enough pressure on people who already have a lot on = themselves to change their workflow in order to continue contributing to Gu= ix. And my proposal is targetted towards an eventual move to Codeberg, just= a more gradual approach, based on empirical feedback and with some time to= clear the existing backlog and to learn the new system.=20 Regards, --=20 Divya Ranjan, Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software. PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87tt853p28.fsf@HIDDEN> (Simon Tournier's message of "Fri, 07
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Hi Simon,
> On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 at 21:05, Ricardo Wurmus=20
> <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
>> It seems that on Codeberg the primary means of keeping track of=20
>> things
>> is through notifications. I fear I might still end up dropping=20
>> the
>> ball when a PR requires my attention if it gets buried in=20
>> countless
>> notifications -- especially if I have to keep them unread to=20
>> ever have
>> a chance of finding them again. Obviously, a fix here would be=20
>> to
>> adjust my behaviour and not let notifications pile up, but this=20
>> has no
>> chance of ever happening. (In completely unrelated news: I've=20
>> got
>> 17532 unread Guix emails.)
>
> Yes, I agree. IMHO, it would be a mistake to think that=20
> Codeberg would
> ease how to deal with all the submissions. Even, because there=20
> is no
> simple tools at hand =E2=80=93 as Maxim said in [1] =E2=80=93 the current=
=20
> interface
> makes the process harder, from my point of view.
>
> For example, Leo wrote [2]:
>
> For me, the big problem with email is that resolved=20
> tickets don't get
> removed from my inbox. Currently, my guix-patches inbox=20
> has 7000
> messages. And 520 for bug-guix. Since April 2024.
>
> and yeah that=E2=80=99s an issue! Well, maybe I=E2=80=99ve missed the ob=
vious=20
> but my
> Notifications are not removed when the PR is merged.
>
> Somehow, the way Codeberg Notifications is currently implemented=20
> does
> the same way as =E2=80=9Cmy inbox=E2=80=9D, IIUC, except that instead of =
being=20
> able to
> manipulate these tickets with the comfort on a good email=20
> reader, now we
> need API queries or live in the browser.
It seems that Forgejo Notifications are not the correct interface=20
to improve our overview, because as you say they would suffer from=20
the same problem as emails with the added disadvantages of=20
cluttering the email inbox (with notification emails) and the lack=20
of a local client to make sense of them (which is what email=20
allows us to do).
I found that the URL
https://codeberg.org/org/guix-science/pulls?\
type=3Dreview_requested&\
sort=3Drecentupdate&\
state=3Dopen&\
q=3D&fuzzy=3Dtrue
Shows me current pull requests that still await my review.=20
Likewise I can list those I've reviewed already with=20
"type=3Dreviewed_by" and those assigned to me with "type=3Dassigned".=20
Curiously, these filters don't seem to be exposed in the API=20
endpoint /repos/{owner}/{repo}/pulls.
Reviews can automatically be requested via the CODEOWNERS file, so=20
I think moulding our workflow around this overview would be an=20
obvious improvement.
> Somehow, we need something more gradual. For instance, 2 or 3=20
> steps with
> concrete and detailed milestones; targeting the end of =E2=80=9Cpatch by=
=20
> email=E2=80=9D
> something as next December.
>
> Why? Because we need to learn more where the friction could be,=20
> what is
> really lacking, what makes too much hurdle, etc. And adapt=20
> accordingly.
This sounds reasonable, but perhaps the migration is not quite a=20
big as we think. There are not that many committers, who would be=20
on the receiving side of pull request review. What do the current=20
committers absolutely require of the forge to be able to complete=20
at least as many reviews as they do today? Perhaps we can=20
concretely list the committers' requirements, and see what=20
solutions or workarounds we can find for each of them.
This is setting aside more fundamental misgivings such as "I don't=20
like that Codeberg requires an account" or "I don't feel I can=20
trust Codeberg e.V. with our data", which ought to be negotiated=20
in this discussion. (I don't like that Codeberg requires an=20
account, even for the AGit workflow, but I think there could be=20
workarounds, and I don't consider this more than a minor=20
inconvenience.)
> All that to say, I am not convinced that completely jumping to=20
> something
> fully new for most of us is a good approach; especially when the=20
> same us
> already know the pitfalls of our tools or behaviour.
A complication of a partial move (perhaps just the r-team and the=20
python-team) is that it starts an extended period of confusion for=20
contributors. We would have to document the preferences of each=20
team. I don't know if the GCD process is laid out for per-team=20
decisions like this.
If the experiment is deemed a failure by those who have moved to=20
Codeberg they'll just move back. But what if the experiment is=20
only deemed a failure by those who haven't actually given Codeberg=20
a try? We'd end up with permanent fragmentation.
--=20
Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:03:44 -0800 (PST) From: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> To: "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <CAJ=RwfbeEkmkdbhXpyUdi0xR7rydbXT_igXj1LBh6f6RwxN1jA@HIDDEN> (David Thompson's message of "Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:47:38 -0500") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=Rwfa8Rf7KwgmghStxxpG+7JkvAp+B+euT7YKekAyoGmP9Gg@HIDDEN> <87o6ycoi2f.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAJ=RwfbeEkmkdbhXpyUdi0xR7rydbXT_igXj1LBh6f6RwxN1jA@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:03:33 -0500 Message-ID: <87h644ogzu.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) "Thompson, David" <dthompson2@HIDDEN> writes: >> Do you also believe that the Linux kernel has outgrown the "email-based >> workflow"? If not, what makes things different for Guix, in your >> opinion? > > I don't contribute to Linux so I have nothing to add here. I don't believe that that's a necessary pre-requisite to be able to add something of value, but fair enough. >> Since a number of criticisms about the current approach have been about >> the GNU fork of Debbugs. I wonder if replacing that with something else >> (say, Bugzilla) while still retaining the email-based workflow wouldn't >> address most of the pain points. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the >> Linux kernel takes a similar approach. > > I wouldn't support a switch to Bugzilla or something similar. Okay. > I want Guix to use a real forge with pull requests, webhooks, etc. Well, yes, that much is clear. -- Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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If not, what makes things different for Guix, in your > opinion? I don't contribute to Linux so I have nothing to add here. > Since a number of criticisms about the current approach have been about > the GNU fork of Debbugs. I wonder if replacing that with something else > (say, Bugzilla) while still retaining the email-based workflow wouldn't > address most of the pain points. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the > Linux kernel takes a similar approach. I wouldn't support a switch to Bugzilla or something similar. I want Guix to use a real forge with pull requests, webhooks, etc. - Dave
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Do you also believe that the Linux kernel has outgrown the "email-based workflow"? If not, what makes things different for Guix, in your opinion? Since a number of criticisms about the current approach have been about the GNU fork of Debbugs. I wonder if replacing that with something else (say, Bugzilla) while still retaining the email-based workflow wouldn't address most of the pain points. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the Linux kernel takes a similar approach. -- Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 09:05:55 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 15:50:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87msdw51z6.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ricardo, On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 10:21, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote: > Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> writes: > >> We have a *humongous* backlog of patches, [...] > >> [...] we host a backend service that regularly checks the Codeberg >> repository for any new issues or PRs and then communicates to us >> through the Codeberg=E2=80=99s Forgejo API [0] the content of said issue= s and >> PRs. The data received from the API then gets directed to our Debbugs >> or Mumi backend, which parses the information from it and opens a new >> Debbugs issue for it. Thus, for every issue opened on Codeberg, we >> have a mirrored Debbugs issue [...] > > So at the end we'd have an even larger backlog of patches, and spread > across two systems...? And where do we source the time and motivation > to hack on yet another piece of software? I proposed a similar one-way bridge here [1]. And obviously, my proposal is also to volunteer for helping in implementing in Mumi backend. Cheers, simon 1: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:35:25 +0100 id:875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503 https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN https://yhetil.org/guix/875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN PS: I agree with the rest of your message, and to complement: > It does not even do simple things like delivering notifications to > *everyone* who participates in an issue discussion. This is the > reason for the sudden eery silence that can be seen in many issues. I=E2=80=99m not sure Codeberg notifies you without the dedicated @rekado; similarly as adding you with CC.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>,
76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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Hi,
On Fri, 07 Mar 2025 at 05:22, 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>> For one example, consider
>>> <https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/63>.
>>>
>>> As you can see, there is no =E2=80=9CCommit=E2=80=9C and no =E2=80=9CFi=
les changed=E2=80=9C. Why?
>>> Because Alexis deleted the PR branch. Therefore, harder to know what
>>> the PR was about; annoyances.
>>
>> Thanks for raising this. This is a very important point. Losing history
>> like this seems very bad. Ideally, we want to have an archive of every
>> conversation and contribution that went into the project. Emails provide
>> this. If Codeberg does not, we should rethink our move.
>
> If you read through the Conversation section, you can see a message for
> every time commits were added to the branch or it was force-pushed. If
> you click on the commit hashes or subjects in these messages, it takes
> you to a description of the commit, featuring a diff and files changed.
> In this way you can see every iteration of the PR, just like we have
> every patch revision in our mailing-list archives.
Yes, as I detailed in [1]. :-)
However, you still need to =E2=80=9Cclick=E2=80=9D here or there. My issue=
could =E2=80=9Clive
in the browser=E2=80=9D but the one I raise is: you need a stable Internet
connection. Anyway, another story. :-)
What I wanted to illustrate is about the storage. Arun wrote [2]:
I was present with Ludo and others when we visited the Codeberg sta=
ll at
FOSDEM, and enquired about the possibility of hosting Guix on Codeb=
erg.
The person at the stall was hesitant about our large repo, and our =
many
users. In fact, in order to save on disk space, they suggested that=
we
encourage our contributors to delete their forks once done. :-D Nee=
dless
to say, that's never going to happen!
And I=E2=80=99m adding elements to this question.
Well, my opinion on this topics of storage is: Without concrete numbers
and explicit questions to Codeberg team, the discussion is speculation
on one way or on the other.
I agree with Ludo [3]:
That they=E2=80=99re transparent and upfront about their=
scalability
issues is a rather good sign to me.
Therefore, the ball is our camp. :-) How many submissions per month on
average? How many revisions per submission? How many message per
submission? Etc.
Instead of answering, I could do that=E2=80=A6 Hum?!=20
Cheers,
simon
1: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:15:43 +0100
id:87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN
https://yhetil.org/guix/87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN
2: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>
Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:03:02 +0000
id:87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN
https://yhetil.org/guix/87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN
3: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN>
Wed, 26 Feb 2025 22:01:47 +0100
id:8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN
https://yhetil.org/guix/8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN
PS:=20
> One thing I particularly like is that the final message (well, the one
> before 'deleted branch *typst*') shows you the commit that was finally
> merged. On the mailing lists, many of the issues are closed with a
> message like 'applied with minor tweaks, thanks', and not all committers
> will note the commit hash - so you're left grepping for the patch
> subject line in `git log` if you want to know what tweaks were made.
> Codeberg automatically notes the hash, and you can see the final
> iteration just by clicking on it!
The introduction of Change-Id fixes. Indeed, it=E2=80=99s not at one click=
. :-)
Yes, it could be introduced to Mumi and showed in the web-interface.
And then it opens some questions described elsewhere. ;-)
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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Hi Ricardo,
On Thu, 06 Mar 2025 at 21:05, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote:
> It seems that on Codeberg the primary means of keeping track of things
> is through notifications. I fear I might still end up dropping the
> ball when a PR requires my attention if it gets buried in countless
> notifications -- especially if I have to keep them unread to ever have
> a chance of finding them again. Obviously, a fix here would be to
> adjust my behaviour and not let notifications pile up, but this has no
> chance of ever happening. (In completely unrelated news: I've got
> 17532 unread Guix emails.)
Yes, I agree. IMHO, it would be a mistake to think that Codeberg would
ease how to deal with all the submissions. Even, because there is no
simple tools at hand =E2=80=93 as Maxim said in [1] =E2=80=93 the current i=
nterface
makes the process harder, from my point of view.
For example, Leo wrote [2]:
For me, the big problem with email is that resolved tickets don't g=
et
removed from my inbox. Currently, my guix-patches inbox has 7000
messages. And 520 for bug-guix. Since April 2024.
and yeah that=E2=80=99s an issue! Well, maybe I=E2=80=99ve missed the obvi=
ous but my
Notifications are not removed when the PR is merged.
Somehow, the way Codeberg Notifications is currently implemented does
the same way as =E2=80=9Cmy inbox=E2=80=9D, IIUC, except that instead of be=
ing able to
manipulate these tickets with the comfort on a good email reader, now we
need API queries or live in the browser.
To say it explicitly, only at the scale of guix-science, I was spending
boring time only to manage with these Notifications already processed,
so the fix of my annoyance: fully turn off the Notifications =E2=80=93 too =
old
to be bored again and again and not enough free time to scratch my itch.
Result: the exact same situation as with Debbugs.el =E2=80=93 but a bit wor=
se
because fj.el provides less capabilities compared to Debbugs.el and
Notmuch.
To me, moving from =E2=80=9Cpatch by email=E2=80=9D to PR is a good thing, =
potentially.
However, I am not aligned with the proposed =E2=80=9CMigration Path=E2=80=
=9D.
Somehow, we need something more gradual. For instance, 2 or 3 steps with
concrete and detailed milestones; targeting the end of =E2=80=9Cpatch by em=
ail=E2=80=9D
something as next December.
Why? Because we need to learn more where the friction could be, what is
really lacking, what makes too much hurdle, etc. And adapt accordingly.
All that to say, I am not convinced that completely jumping to something
fully new for most of us is a good approach; especially when the same us
already know the pitfalls of our tools or behaviour.
Cheers,
simon
1: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Code=
berg
Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Tue, 04 Mar 2025 20:22:59 +0900
id:8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-03
https://yhetil.org/guix/8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN
2: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:39:26 -0500
id:Z6UP7nNeJlrnkA4U@HIDDEN
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02
https://yhetil.org/guix/Z6UP7nNeJlrnkA4U@HIDDEN
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 17:02:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 12:02:37 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49817 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqb5o-00024e-VB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 12:02:37 -0500 Received: from sail-ipv4.us-core.com ([208.82.101.137]:59878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>) id 1tqb5l-00024S-L2 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 12:02:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=2017; bh=HMLpLz7P3yR6XFS cQQ2r8geiavhrTFIvqjApRNwL3E8=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=lease-up.com; b=ny5UYvYCGTY0pCfQpKYU5OTYPSivA/z/4HSXcBeH vpPfFOjLfUl4fFyF2bJToeUQsLBmXgSUmhvoaYWgBX6FZNOOmPqfElVVN+aqx+1VDAgjXv vda7u3XjTpU+sNmM2hHcDLat83GHV4v2ocoGy4hmYgcF/7AZM5W7YlZ7RS1ec= Received: by sail-ipv4.us-core.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 8f87747b (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:02:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87a59wzudr.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 17:18:56 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> <87seno25k0.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a59wzudr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 09:02:30 -0800 Message-ID: <87msdw22qh.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ricardo, On Fri, Mar 07 2025, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > Surely you are not suggesting that my desire to work on Guix [...] > would be sufficient in reducing the backlog of bugs? The remainder of my message made that clear but you were offended and hit reply too fast. My observation was about the group. I suggested as a hook for my argument that your desire to contribute, which you have done more than most, was not sufficient to reduce the backlog of bugs. Isn't that how you and many other committers feel as well? Kind regards Felix P.S. Questioning my good faith or my conduct was below the belt.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 08:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87frjozwbn.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 16:37:00 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frjozwbn.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:46:14 -0500 Message-ID: <87senookkp.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes: > We have had non-trivial patches with a number of revisions on the > guix-science channel. > > Examples: > > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/59 > https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/75 Thank you for sharing! -- Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 08:43:54 -0800 (PST) From: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <Z8sY1mUseNtbQmh7@jurong> (Andreas Enge's message of "Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:03:34 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> <Z8sY1mUseNtbQmh7@jurong> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:43:43 -0500 Message-ID: <87wmd0okow.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN> writes: > my observation was rather the inverse: our current debbugs approch > struggles for patch series. Ah, my bad. I mistook "issues" to mean issues on a forge as opposed to a debbugs issue. Thank you for correcting. > Which says nothing about the experience on a forge, logically. True. -- Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 16:19:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 11:19:31 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49723 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqaQ6-0005PM-Om for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:19:31 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21155) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tqaQ4-0005PB-94 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:19:28 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741364343; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=TGkh4+oDilxL+IiEi5Ynr9M1jDlZ27I8Z5MrcpxY11uFbng/LbJTcXjQgHYmyFJfIsL6/cAEgtTTIiHJjYUxY1IeumLHhySbc8/ZpMnemtHRmjT7HSyKNu1KYY/mssj3vGpDx9f4JIcIlh3PO8tNP5j1OC2l65V1yze5PsSPC24= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741364343; h=Content-Type:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=vsmcBqnMbbAfrPbYFDxq7anklPhmwko7UdG0BI8HcaQ=; b=F++V0671gYBGo96K4/y0bkp7axs5+7MD9XI4Ua4lrHbWb/4JIMt0xRWR8A/XT4/+0TQrwciSh44Ixjm0sluxrrKNZQWycKGRTpceVIuarklbamuPKqNFmIiLAkPhWHRgeQf4HQp0rnKcr6euPDSkqoluDMVGjckuDw20d/mpPnE= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741364343; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=vsmcBqnMbbAfrPbYFDxq7anklPhmwko7UdG0BI8HcaQ=; b=LjnljcHbdmE5yqIqgObKd7XdEvsAGboS/g2lldvveWjWfBq+jWUEX8YkHfcU6T9n KiogTVIGg2YuESDRq3bhjyrg2TaM2goDEWJPBpGLE2llGAmbrFjdt9VhjYpSzyAXgZZ XQ5+EH9tP6m9DVOVjHzsdArorbtah9Rqkp7PxBxQ= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741364340122322.457824659503; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 08:19:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87seno25k0.fsf@HIDDEN> (Felix Lechner's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 08:01:35 -0800") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> <87seno25k0.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 17:18:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87a59wzudr.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Felix, > On Fri, Mar 07 2025, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > >> I'd rather work on Guix. > > Then why is there a backlog of bugs? This is such an odd thing to ask, I cannot convince myself that it's a serious question asked in good faith. Surely you are not suggesting that my desire to work on Guix rather than doing sysadmin work or hacking on infrastructure (which I *have* in fact been doing for years in service of the Guix project, even if you might be unaware of it) would be sufficient in reducing the backlog of bugs? > I only see a group of software developers unable to close more > bugs than > are being opened. > > It's not because of technical limitations [...] I don't know how you can make this claim with confidence. You are, of course, welcome to reject my experience here, but (like your question above) that's a really odd way of conducting yourself in a discussion. -- Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 16:03:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 11:03:51 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqaAx-0004bH-Ba for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:03:51 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:46136) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <andreas@HIDDEN>) id 1tqaAv-0004b3-8x for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 11:03:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97A9167; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:03:42 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: hera.aquilenet.fr; none X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id IAq7Xn6WaAOt; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:03:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (176-179-191-150.abo.bbox.fr [176.179.191.150]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A8D6435; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:03:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:03:34 +0100 From: Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN> To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Message-ID: <Z8sY1mUseNtbQmh7@jurong> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B97A9167 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.87 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[99.99%]; NEURAL_SPAM(2.97)[0.989]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gnu.org,gmail.com,debbugs.gnu.org,lease-up.com] X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ X-Rspamd-Action: add header X-Spam-Level: ****** X-Spam: Yes X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Am Fri, Mar 07, 2025 at 09:40:28AM -0500 schrieb Suhail Singh: > Based on Andreas's observations in [1]: > It seems if we are basing our experimentations on only "trivial patches" > that are sent to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix>, we may not be > observing the instances where a forge-style review process actually > struggles; our conclusions may be flawed. my observation was rather the inverse: our current debbugs approch struggles for patch series. For the submitters, this starts with a series of size 2 (whenever I have one of these, I look up the Guix manual on the web and follow the process described there; yet another example where what I do is actually web based). For reviewers and committers, series with a few commits are still okay. Which says nothing about the experience on a forge, logically. Andreas
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri,
07 Mar 2025 10:21:48 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Hi Ricardo,
On Fri, Mar 07 2025, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
> I'd rather work on Guix.
Then why is there a backlog of bugs?
I only see a group of software developers unable to close more bugs than
are being opened.
It's not because of technical limitations, but because the committers
are overwhelmed by the overall bug volume, are afraid to trigger
rebuilds or make other big changes, and are generally overworked
volunteers who also want to do other things in their lives.
> I don't see an active future for the GNU fork of Debbugs
There could be. I mated Debbugs with Public Inbox.
My system scans Debbugs for changes [1] but does not yet maintain
inboxes by bug number. The information is available via the NNTP news
protocol, for example with the Gnus configuration below. People could
subscribe to bugs via a news reader and reduce their mail load.
> [Debbugs] does not even do simple things like delivering notifications
> to *everyone* who participates in an issue discussion.
Debbugs does not copy folks automatically because many do not want it.
In Debian, submitters are often non-technical people. They do not care
about how a problem is solved, only when it is. Debbugs does that.
Kind regards
Felix
[1] https://patchwise.org/inbox/bugs-to-scan/
* * *
(setq gnus-select-method
'(nnimap "patchwise.org"
(nnimap-authenticator anonymous)
(nnimap-port "imap")
(nnimap-stream network)))
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 15:37:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 10:37:24 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqZlM-0003Ka-Cs for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:37:24 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tqZlI-0003KO-5R for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:37:21 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741361827; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=QgKci4OmckmaJaRIgnILEnP0or4Fm7qcn33ShaDDSVXH5lmXzq87UndSxik/MCwHm83CikGNiG/bv7GiRMOfV8O6I5AGtiyL4G1t7lQ4mDSnNiJPZD5EYBbPWaqJUA/kRKqWFylUVej5HfyE0iuP7lHn7zcNGr75BwTl90g4Dlc= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741361827; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=0Yx2wo4En89W+iYOvSsLWhVtZLdGR41URvjrH1HCMxs=; b=K6FnCWOInb3kIWksiA0g3B9ClxBrOvcxpD2C5HDVk8JvkAuiNNG48OZu2Se2w4bNR/VEk7x8dYLynOtwoT8aNorwvZKgIHmqnhQULlRau20FOV38KuZU/6IxnkbXNyCZzUfhN4ubRiQ0r+NMAvUQIUZeu8njQ3DHyaBLowpl8KE= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741361827; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=0Yx2wo4En89W+iYOvSsLWhVtZLdGR41URvjrH1HCMxs=; b=J6bTyYW46DQh3IksH3UyAe3XQRE5EdFaGCjOpEQZwxgB4l7oXIE8alUbmz6yapI0 VWDbDnAyRQJhkWZr/PoLDker3lM72KE9IuVv2jIFDTCP119eHgHFwR+BWPWZS1PfCap Qcy5BZfL+PDDBalUjCEydtXAdfwRG2RanEttGlh4= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741361823408275.04731346208916; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 07:37:03 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> (Suhail Singh's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 09:40:28 -0500") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87o6yc9a5f.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 16:37:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87frjozwbn.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN> writes: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes: > >> As for experimenting, I agree and I reiterate my invitation to=20 >> send >> trivial patches to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix> (or to >> Guix-Science, Guix-Past, etc.). I think this GCD=E2=80=99s discussion=20 >> period is >> the right time to give it a try as it can better inform=20 >> discussions. > > Based on Andreas's observations in [1]: > > #+caption: <https://yhetil.org/guix/Z8rJyIIUR84pWdLS@jurong/> > #+begin_quote > On the other hand, as soon as there is a patch series on=20 > issues, it also > becomes more or less unreadable; after 5 versions of a 6-patch=20 > series, > it becomes difficult to find the start of the current version=20 > and all > comments in between. > #+end_quote > > It seems if we are basing our experimentations on only "trivial=20 > patches" > that are sent to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix>, we may not=20 > be > observing the instances where a forge-style review process=20 > actually > struggles; our conclusions may be flawed. We have had non-trivial patches with a number of revisions on the guix-science channel. Examples: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/59 https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/75 --=20 Ricardo
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From: Suhail Singh <suhailsingh247@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=
=?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Wed, 05 Mar 2025 17:23:33 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN>
<871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 09:40:28 -0500
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Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>,
Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>,
Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> As for experimenting, I agree and I reiterate my invitation to send
> trivial patches to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix> (or to
> Guix-Science, Guix-Past, etc.). I think this GCD=E2=80=99s discussion pe=
riod is
> the right time to give it a try as it can better inform discussions.
Based on Andreas's observations in [1]:
#+caption: <https://yhetil.org/guix/Z8rJyIIUR84pWdLS@jurong/>
#+begin_quote
On the other hand, as soon as there is a patch series on issues, it also
becomes more or less unreadable; after 5 versions of a 6-patch series,
it becomes difficult to find the start of the current version and all
comments in between.
#+end_quote
It seems if we are basing our experimentations on only "trivial patches"
that are sent to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix>, we may not be
observing the instances where a forge-style review process actually
struggles; our conclusions may be flawed.
[1]: <https://yhetil.org/guix/Z8rJyIIUR84pWdLS@jurong/>
--=20
Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 07 Mar 2025 03:30:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <874j066rqq.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <874j066rqq.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 12:30:30 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JqEarHVYtDO1M5i2zxEvvc1XSHfe8CubdtiHzv6qQQfOFzeziAlCY1cUKg Message-ID: <CAJ3okZ3YW775JKcs6kzJbaS6NHaW67W5igc4O7S51dNiw71kdg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e49571062fbef3af" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000e49571062fbef3af Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re, On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 at 17:36, Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> wrote: > 1: The first patch sent to guix-patches, SWH still ingesting when > writing this. :-) So maybe here=E2=80=A6 > > https://archive.softwareheritage.org/swh:1:cnt;ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3= c1f6d5fdb5f1 Modulo the typo 's/;/:/' :-) The first patch sent to guix-patches is archived in Software Heritage, FWIW. https://archive.softwareheritage.org/swh:1:cnt:ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3= c1f6d5fdb5f1 Cheers, simon --000000000000e49571062fbef3af Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Re,<br><br>On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 at 17:36, Simon Tournier <= ;<a href=3D"mailto:zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN">zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN</a>&g= t; wrote:<br><br>> 1: The first patch sent to guix-patches, SWH still in= gesting when<br>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0writing this. :-) =C2=A0So maybe here=E2= =80=A6<br>><br><div>> <a href=3D"https://archive.softwareheritage.org= /swh:1:cnt;ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3c1f6d5fdb5f1">https://archive.softwa= reheritage.org/swh:1:cnt;ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3c1f6d5fdb5f1</a></div>= <div><br></div><div>Modulo the typo 's/;/:/' :-)=C2=A0 The first pa= tch sent to guix-patches is archived in Software Heritage, FWIW.<br></div><= div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://archive.softwareheritage.org/swh:1:cn= t:ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3c1f6d5fdb5f1">https://archive.softwareheritag= e.org/swh:1:cnt:ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3c1f6d5fdb5f1</a></div><div><br>= </div><div>Cheers,</div><div>simon</div><div><br></div></div> --000000000000e49571062fbef3af--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 10:26:30 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 05:26:30 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqUuT-0004cQ-VP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 05:26:30 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:41322) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <andreas@HIDDEN>) id 1tqUuP-0004c3-Qz for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 05:26:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA4B280; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:26:19 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: hera.aquilenet.fr; none X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id mW76_a7YYoJt; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:26:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (176-179-191-150.abo.bbox.fr [176.179.191.150]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B5201F8; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:26:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:26:16 +0100 From: Andreas Enge <andreas@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Message-ID: <Z8rJyIIUR84pWdLS@jurong> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CAA4B280 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.90 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%]; NEURAL_SPAM(3.00)[1.000]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[subvertising.org, elenq.tech, gmail.com, gnu.org, debbugs.gnu.org, lease-up.com] X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Rspamd-Action: no action X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, I also agree that we should either not switch, or switch with a short period of overlap. It does not make sense to spread our limited time to work on two systems at the same time. And it definitely does not make sense to spend additional development work (by whom?) to create a bridge between the two. Am Fri, Mar 07, 2025 at 10:21:48AM +0100 schrieb Ricardo Wurmus: > It does not even do simple things like delivering notifications to > *everyone* who participates in an issue discussion. This is the reason > for the sudden eery silence that can be seen in many issues. And it is something I learnt just recently after more than ten years of contributing to Guix! If I understood correctly, it does not even alert the original submitter. Probably I have closed a few issues because the submitter had not read my comments or request for more information and I had deduced that they were no longer interested. This alone would be a reason for me to switch to a different system. We claim that our workflow is "email based", but in fact it is not: To be informed about issues I have contributed to, I need to keep each and every one in a bookmark and visit it with my web browser regularly. At least in the forges I have seen so far, I get an (often cryptic) email message when something happens that entices me to connect to the web. Anyway, I usually look at QA and the issues on the web when I have time for a little committer work. The situation in which email works is when I get an automatic copy for a patch touching one of my teams (and this is very useful). The overly graphic nature of these web forges makes them somewhat confusing. For instance, it took me a little while to understand where the trivial little patch was for an issue on Ludovic's test instance, until I realised I needed to click once more. issues.guix.gnu.org is much more focussed and less cluttered. On the other hand, as soon as there is a patch series on issues, it also becomes more or less unreadable; after 5 versions of a 6-patch series, it becomes difficult to find the start of the current version and all comments in between. Andreas
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 09:22:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 04:22:21 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46985 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqTuO-0001cd-KX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 04:22:21 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21152) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tqTuL-0001cT-OK for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 04:22:18 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741339314; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=Hf3jzUpilzhYRgAqHYNMZO0S0YYjzaOKaYmegSgxSjVm9kR6FM0nxS2PSH1vWaeIC7qeTKZpFKlzSS/8YhQD9Kgn8BgFEcKG+fR5xQElMR/S8spCmE5rJgnnfvxnkF8rI4Yi+Nee5cMfDMjw4atn/KWgKQOTHDDo5Bt1+2asCmE= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741339314; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=VGUpBQH42C44tsmqELqqw8rFykv5XyrzLwqm38PnJdk=; b=Rgn2fh03XBH8kKHt2pl7Pj51bkLevfUZ6qIjlV98D7I0ryEXjZIvUFdAKKchamw81hjt6jqy3yLsT5GHsRPvmASlabT04z6+4gaX2GAPEU6Rg4or1o95Jn0YhbcC/vQRcusINOp/XmFRj/8Zo0qaoDzOzMNBhZy23Mlsa8X2akg= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741339314; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=VGUpBQH42C44tsmqELqqw8rFykv5XyrzLwqm38PnJdk=; b=AOO3VRcXL4sioM5PXTut7LZtjRtkZBBAs+GnckFV7DyLuZqI06swgryveNQ4nDqu 90wMR1F1bYS6u7wm1puf7MRRCQ6PZmV0t96SeGWKSPOAXrHcjLmIMv9errP4tGJp9Q7 i2lx++wOKKk13RvgKueD2aedNE+43uoXmVWUPQb0= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741339311367255.6168757784136; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 01:21:51 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> (Divya Ranjan's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 03:27:11 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:21:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87wmd1yz4j.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> writes: > We have a *humongous* backlog of patches, [...] > [...] we host a backend service that regularly checks the=20 > Codeberg > repository for any new issues or PRs and then communicates to us > through the Codeberg=E2=80=99s Forgejo API [0] the content of said=20 > issues and > PRs. The data received from the API then gets directed to our=20 > Debbugs > or Mumi backend, which parses the information from it and opens=20 > a new > Debbugs issue for it. Thus, for every issue opened on Codeberg,=20 > we > have a mirrored Debbugs issue [...] So at the end we'd have an even larger backlog of patches, and=20 spread across two systems...? And where do we source the time and=20 motivation to hack on yet another piece of software? Outside contributions=20 to mumi have been *very* few in all these years; that's not for a lack of problems we've had with the system, and for once it's not for a=20 lack of review either. As a long time contributor with commit access I have the=20 impression that people new to Guix hold the assumption that the current system and workflow works for long time contributors. I may just be wildly incompetent, but for me it most assuredly does not work in=20 enabling reviews. I mostly review patches that were sent to me directly or=20 that happen to solve a problem I'm trying to solve as part of my=20 maintainance work. The haphazard GNU fork of Debbugs also lacks a number of features,=20 has odd unaddressed bugs, lacks people who even understand in what=20 ways it differs from the Debian version, lacks people working on improving=20 it and addressing these issues. (There is literally *one* person who=20 keeps the lights on.) It does not even do simple things like delivering notifications to *everyone* who participates in an issue discussion. This is the=20 reason for the sudden eery silence that can be seen in many issues. I honestly have my doubts that the move to Codeberg would=20 automatically solve all of my workflow issues, but let's please not eulogize the email-based workflow too much. It makes sense to me to base our=20 efforts on a system that is *actively* developed by a *team* of aligned=20 free software hackers. I don't see an active future for the GNU fork of Debbugs, and I=20 think it is not a good use of our time to work on a system that won't=20 improve unless we burden ourselves with even more work (like taking over=20 hosting and administration). I'd rather work on Guix. --=20 Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN>
To: Carlo Zancanaro <carlo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87ldths9x7.fsf@HIDDEN> (Carlo Zancanaro's message of
"Fri, 07 Mar 2025 16:10:28 +1100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN>
<a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN>
<87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ldths9x7.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 06:18:25 +0000
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Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>,
Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>,
Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
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Hello Carlo,
> I don't think this is a fair summary of the goal. The first sentence of
> the GCD[1] is:
>
> The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several challenges:
> difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and
> labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation.
>
> Of these, only "difficult onboarding" is about newcomers. Your proposal
> (which I might describe as "proxy Codeberg into debbugs") involves
> building new infrastructure without helping the other issues.
You are correct, Carlo, the GCD does have multiple goals. But in my email I=
also elaborated how the onboarding issue is a high-priority task, reflecti=
ve from the last survey and also something that can be achieved without ris=
king too much. I believe we are at a probabilistic trade-off decision here,=
do we wish to achieve all the goals, including a complete change of infras=
tructure, workflow etc. in the proposed timeline of 15 days or so, and thus=
incurring a lot of problems that a team of committers would=E2=80=99ve to =
put a lot of effort into resolving? Or, do we wish to slowly achieve some o=
f the goals, take those goals as a litmus test for the overall proposal and=
proceed gradually? I believe latter would be a safer bet, with less to ris=
k immediately and opportunity to fix mistakes from feedback.
So, yes, my proposal cannot resolve all the goals, but I am trying to find =
a way to integrate what we have with what we might switch to. I might be at=
fault here, and feel free to elaborate on that, such as how can we approac=
h the proposed quick migration to Codeberg while having a huge backlog of p=
atches?=20
>> Since Codeberg already allows to communicate in issues over email,
>> i.e. you can respond to someone in a particular issue over email, this
>> shouldn=E2=80=99t be too difficult to arrange.
>
> This is not true today. While Forgejo supports replying via email,
> Codeberg does not have that enabled due to bugs. They have an issue
> tracking it: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/1562
Thank you for this. I had tried it on a Forgejo repository, not a Codeberg =
one, so I believed the same could be possible here as well. From the discus=
sions I see, if we spend enough time with them--which we need to do either =
ways--for the migration, they might get it working? Does not look far from =
possible to me.
> Even if it was true, the big disconnect here would be around commenting
> on specific lines of code. An email with a comment on a patch would come
> through as a top-level comment on the PR, which is not natural in that
> context.
Also thank you for bringing this issue, indeed this is a crucial functional=
ity. But to be clear, this is specifically for a pull-request. The issues f=
unctionality is totally doable out of the box with Forgejo, we just need to=
make it work with Codeberg and polish it. With regards to the PR, one has =
to remember that the entire process needs to be wrapped around Forgejo=E2=
=80=99s API, not as our used to method of plain text. We=E2=80=99d be parsi=
ng JSON to-and-fro. For "reviewing a Pull Request" in Codeberg methodology,=
Forgejo provides a =3D/repos/{owner}/{repo}/pulls/{index}/reviews=3D API[0=
] to initiate a review. This API will take the comments from the patch in t=
he Email, place them in the "body" string of the JSON, and the respective p=
ositions from the diff, the commit_id and so on. I agree it is non-trivial,=
but so is switching a workflow that has been in-place for years, also a no=
n-trivial task. I think the API has enough things for what we need. And aga=
in, we don=E2=80=99t need all of them, we only require implementing those f=
or now that bridge existing email workflow and the newcomers=E2=80=99 onboa=
rding. Merging, for example, I propose to be done in the usual way of takin=
g a patch and applying it. Eventually once we have less of a backlog, and m=
ore ease of migration, one might consider moving these core tasks to the Co=
deberg as well.
Either ways, we are at the crossroads and we need to decide which trade-off=
is worth the pain. I believe it is *not* certain that once we entirely mig=
rate to Codeberg, the goals of "complexity" and "lack of legibility" would =
be immediately reaped. It creates a possibility of enjoying them, but given=
the assumption that the switch from existing architecture is smooth. And, =
once again, if we were a relatively smaller project such as the Guix-Scienc=
e, this could=E2=80=99ve been a decision much simpler and with less at stak=
e, but that is not the case. But I think it *is* certain that if we take an=
approach that doesn=E2=80=99t directly replace one workflow with another, =
but bridges the new one with the previous one, the committers will have a b=
etter way to switch. Simply because they can try to finish the backlog usin=
g the existing workflow, and the new patches can come to them with that as =
well. Where we go from there, can be decided upon how good the litmus test =
goes.
[0]: https://codeberg.org/api/swagger#/repository/repoCreatePullReview
Regards,
--=20
Divya Ranjan,
Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software.
PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[14.139.162.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-736985191c4sm2400890b3a.146.2025.03.06.21.22.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 06 Mar 2025 21:22:14 -0800 (PST) From: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <877c51vind.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c51vind.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 05:22:00 +0000 Message-ID: <87h645mn47.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> writes: > Hi Simon, > >> For one example, consider >> <https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/63>. >> >> As you can see, there is no =E2=80=9CCommit=E2=80=9C and no =E2=80=9CFil= es changed=E2=80=9C. Why? >> Because Alexis deleted the PR branch. Therefore, harder to know what >> the PR was about; annoyances. > > Thanks for raising this. This is a very important point. Losing history > like this seems very bad. Ideally, we want to have an archive of every > conversation and contribution that went into the project. Emails provide > this. If Codeberg does not, we should rethink our move. If you read through the Conversation section, you can see a message for every time commits were added to the branch or it was force-pushed. If you click on the commit hashes or subjects in these messages, it takes you to a description of the commit, featuring a diff and files changed. In this way you can see every iteration of the PR, just like we have every patch revision in our mailing-list archives. One thing I particularly like is that the final message (well, the one before 'deleted branch *typst*') shows you the commit that was finally merged. On the mailing lists, many of the issues are closed with a message like 'applied with minor tweaks, thanks', and not all committers will note the commit hash - so you're left grepping for the patch subject line in `git log` if you want to know what tweaks were made. Codeberg automatically notes the hash, and you can see the final iteration just by clicking on it!
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 05:10:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 07 00:10:43 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqPyt-00065X-7H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 00:10:43 -0500 Received: from voltorb.zancanaro.id.au ([45.77.50.64]:60622) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <carlo@HIDDEN>) id 1tqPyr-00065G-30 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 00:10:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=k1; bh=faTcYfIscL9aFI8 X+il6RR2JJBkmw2QkcKYrOIArvA8=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=zancanaro.id.au; b=K07Pu4UNnnlZX+BmO68hQRadd2CUnLkrgPfJ4 btKO535HHClQ2Dkvot1fC5QIxts7pIlS/9E/oLlqkJtyFsQsAsvkFhhcHQnt1Z1ramBoU9 o0qMXAbIusi+1Jrl8BB9yWuKrREA87/bRcXkP7ANsZhI/C8FIOB5alxmDdyuL8bY= Received: by voltorb.zancanaro.id.au (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 991e93da (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 7 Mar 2025 05:10:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Carlo Zancanaro <carlo@HIDDEN> To: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> (Divya Ranjan via Guix-patches via's message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2025 03:27:11 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 16:10:28 +1100 Message-ID: <87ldths9x7.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Divya, On Fri, Mar 07 2025, Divya Ranjan via Guix-patches via wrote: > To achieve our goal of helping newcomers, [...] I don't think this is a fair summary of the goal. The first sentence of the GCD[1] is: The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several challenges: difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation. Of these, only "difficult onboarding" is about newcomers. Your proposal (which I might describe as "proxy Codeberg into debbugs") involves building new infrastructure without helping the other issues. > Since Codeberg already allows to communicate in issues over email, > i.e. you can respond to someone in a particular issue over email, this > shouldn=E2=80=99t be too difficult to arrange. This is not true today. While Forgejo supports replying via email, Codeberg does not have that enabled due to bugs. They have an issue tracking it: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/1562 Even if it was true, the big disconnect here would be around commenting on specific lines of code. An email with a comment on a patch would come through as a top-level comment on the PR, which is not natural in that context. Carlo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2025 03:27:30 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 06 22:27:30 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46224 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqOMz-0001QF-SM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 22:27:30 -0500 Received: from confino.investici.org ([2a11:7980:1::2:0]:61953) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <divya@HIDDEN>) id 1tqOMp-0001Pt-49 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 22:27:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=subvertising.org; s=stigmate; t=1741318036; bh=2pHovcpnVEmxWldkOt2kDX82pP1SrE9yVD/rSkZ4Dho=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=dMDMJUQXPbajfl6dcuQ6UGvK/BV7IdQezx0YDb2lvDCw8kXKFDakP9eRVZjMDHxF2 Fq0sFdhGE23W8NVWnyebaXGaed6PVoYl4yBz6VDfGtD7DjeW6WCeHmdmzy/UqMmyUA ycHoymZrEvrHRQe6HQY1gRLpuurK+F1wt6lMO+0A= Received: from mx1.investici.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by confino.investici.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8BYJ3H5rz11RC; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 03:27:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [93.190.126.19] (mx1.investici.org [93.190.126.19]) (Authenticated sender: divya@HIDDEN) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Z8BYG73Q4z11R9; Fri, 7 Mar 2025 03:27:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Divya Ranjan <divya@HIDDEN> To: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> (Ekaitz Zarraga's message of "Tue, 4 Mar 2025 16:26:48 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 03:27:11 +0000 Message-ID: <87cyeted0w.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello Guix devs, I concur with Ekaitz=E2=80=99s observation: > We would be pushing that complexity only to committers, not to > ocasional contributors, which may help attracting people. But, on the > other hand, we would force people who is already very busy (and very > efficient with their current workflow) to discard their way to do > things and learn another. Almost all large-scale FOSS projects have fouond this time and time again, = even something like Linux kernel, that occasional contributors are large in= number but are not reliably persistent in continuing their contributions. = Of course we should make it easier for more and more people to contribute a= nd work with us, but we should be wary of what that might cost the existing= state of contributions, the bulk of which are done by regular committers o= ver more than a decade, and how that might be affected. Similarly, I also agree with Maxime=E2=80=99s concern: > The complexity of the flow can be partly explained by the fact that there > isn't only one flow possible, but a multitude of flows (Emacs Debbugs, > Mumi, git send-email, etc.), which is more of a strength than a defect > when it comes to the freedom of choice/flexibility for our contributors. >=20 > I see the argument that there's an HTTP API for Forgejo; that's great, > but it requires that everyone relearn another way of doing something > that already works well enough for me and others, which I'm not too > excited about. I also assume the Forgejo-related tooling, given their > young age, would not be as mature and missing features in places, and > that it would require invested time to comfortably do all that can be > done today in Gnus and Emacs Debbugs, away from the web interface, in > the environment of choice (Emacs) of perhaps a majority of the Guix > contributors. We might be prone to underestimate not only the effort that we=E2=80=99ve a= lready put into in continuing what exists, but also a bit too haste in judg= ing it as dysfunctional. As has been said elsewhere by Suhail and others, t= he Codeberg migration is no panacea. That said, we of course need to admit = that our existing workflow has a lot of cruft and problems. But as I=E2=80= =99ve said before, both with regards to the Codeberg migration and the GNU = affiliation, a more reflective and integrative approach is better than some= thing that leaves a lot of things hanging. Maxime is accurate in being wary of a quick migration: > I'd like to suggest extending the 'trial' period to something much > longer, like a year or so, to make sure our parachute is properly > installed before jumping the cliff :-). Letting both systems co-exist > and compete for merit seems a good trial, and we could also extract > useful data (such as how many contributions were merged on one or the > other, etc.). It'd be a bit annoying to keep an eye at two places for > some time, but at least we wouldn't commit to something that may not > scale/match our peculiar requirements as well as we expected. >=20 > After such trial we could then vote on whether we want to fully migrate > to Codeberg, when all regular contributors would have gotten a chance to > try the new tools and find a flow that works for them, hopefully. With > this insurance in place, I'd be happy to experiment with Codeberg and > see whether it truly improves things. We have a *humongous* backlog of patches, and the committers are probably m= ore aware of this than me, of course, but I couldn=E2=80=99t find satisfact= ory proposals to resolve that in the GCD. Even if we were to move to Codebe= rg within the next week, what we already have will take at least a year, as= suming a good chunk of the committers put a lot of work in reviewing the ba= cklog *while* also handling the new PRs that are being issued from Codeberg= . And since our whole point was to make it "easier" for new contributors, t= here=E2=80=99s a good probability that indeed initially there=E2=80=99ll be= a surge of people trying to contribute PRs. That is *good*, but are we rea= dy to handle it alongside the older patches? Here is a proposal which might be considered in keeping an integrative syst= em: Assuming we *should* move to Codeberg, we recognize the fact that such a mo= ve primarily solves one problem *fully* without any reservations: letting a= larger scale population of Guix users to have an easier pathway towards co= ntribution. While some of us, including me, can consider it a misfortune th= at this is indeed the way people are conditioned, it=E2=80=99s beyond our s= cope to solve it. That said, we also have a smaller set of people, i.e. committers, who are p= roficient in a workflow that has several perks to it, and arguably better t= han the previous one, but it is not common among newcomers. To achieve our goal of helping newcomers, we keep a regularly updated mirro= r of Guix on Codeberg with issues and PR features enabled. Whoever wishes t= o contribute, can create an issue, or fork and make a pull-request directly= on Codeberg with their desired workflow (which arguably is largely the web= approach). Here we have a committer or two to handle the Codeberg reposito= ry, label issues, and organize things, but *not* for reviewing patches. Instead, we host a backend service that regularly checks the Codeberg repos= itory for any new issues or PRs and then communicates to us through the Cod= eberg=E2=80=99s Forgejo API [0] the content of said issues and PRs. The dat= a received from the API then gets directed to our Debbugs or Mumi backend, = which parses the information from it and opens a new Debbugs issue for it. = Thus, for every issue opened on Codeberg, we have a mirrored Debbugs issue,= and same for PRs where the diff can be then parsed into a valid patch. To be noted that such mirroring is strictly one-directional initially, ever= y issue opened previously or opened later shouldn=E2=80=99t get mirrored in= to the Codeberg repository. If we assume that only committers are the peopl= e fluent and wanting of email-based workflow, the new Debbugs issue would o= nly be created by them, while we encourage newcomers to always report throu= gh Codeberg=E2=80=99s issue tracker. Since Codeberg already allows to communicate in issues over email, i.e. you= can respond to someone in a particular issue over email, this shouldn=E2= =80=99t be too difficult to arrange. Newcomer opens issue #xxyz -> Debbugs/Mumi mirror it and create xxyz@debbug= s.gnu.org -> Interested committer responds to it over his desired email wor= kflow -> It reaches the newcomer without him having to open email. I argue the same workflow can be replicated for pull-requests as well, with= out the need for any "merge button". We remind ourselves that the need for = a PR/GitHub/Web workflow is to cater newcomers, who have nothing to do with= merge issues but everything to do with forking and contributing changes. E= rgo, the only part of the PR workflow we need is it=E2=80=99s creation, not= the entire package of fork->pull->merge->commit. The latter two are to be = under the responsibility of committers, who will not have to change any par= t of their workflow. As described above, they=E2=80=99ll get the PRs render= ed to them as good ol=E2=80=99 git patches, over mail and they can apply th= em, work on merge issues and get back to the newcomer contributor over emai= l. The only additional part in the case of PRs would be the need to replica= te the patches also across guix-patches mailing list. I know this requires some setting up, but we need such time and effort in a= ny case if we decide to migrate and not fall into the issues Ekaitz and Max= ime pointed out. With the help of Codeberg people for their API, and the kn= owledgeable people on Debbugs such as Felix, Arun, Ricardo et.al, this migh= t be a feasible task. I am also willing to contribute in whatever way and m= eans possible, since I=E2=80=99m slowly working myself towards contributing= more and more to Guix. And even though I=E2=80=99m not a committer, I reta= in the email-based workflow through Gnus and debbugs.el. So, it will help m= e as well. Let me know what you think. [0]: https://codeberg.org/api/swagger Regards, --=20 Divya Ranjan, Philosophy, Mathematics, Libre Software. PGP Fingerprint: F0B3 1A69 8006 8FB8 096A 2F12 B245 10C6 108C 8D4A
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2025 23:34:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 06 18:34:13 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqKjF-0004cS-1N for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:34:13 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:54888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tqKj9-0004c6-Da for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:34:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1741304030; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=59hdXNT/YiN/bRiSY5soMEcxQADtWs95/8tk//nvlBE=; b=VAUSqRiB1Fpeq7JsAwdyifFays/0nNCvZANm+MBk5tc9EC6/iKldE3zywd0Wt41jxiS/cu zsJpyCCuQtIvCChDt4nI3U+ABp8OtEIiMUL9KAizi8FzHoCf05zcqFE4Ggg+wiE2Tle8YN mDDII7lQrf7my29MsoVbt2zkb5nABdi2Ee6lQk0xDeXqcdw3Z/Wn9XLFt35BrOqBOp+BeH K8YACKBh1tAzoLc3ODWybiGtphGvBuwXi2VJM/6UtVGAUHZZB8vYCzt0VmA29jUFm/+CIP Cf8vDUEzTb2CTQVwcaKeVi4vddBDfb0DE5xU0y3kAieg3U725ZQlwdx6CxTRzg== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 44bdea08 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 6 Mar 2025 23:33:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 23:33:42 +0000 Message-ID: <877c51vind.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Simon, > For one example, consider > <https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/63>. > > As you can see, there is no =E2=80=9CCommit=E2=80=9C and no =E2=80=9CFile= s changed=E2=80=9C. Why? > Because Alexis deleted the PR branch. Therefore, harder to know what > the PR was about; annoyances. Thanks for raising this. This is a very important point. Losing history like this seems very bad. Ideally, we want to have an archive of every conversation and contribution that went into the project. Emails provide this. If Codeberg does not, we should rethink our move. I would also be in favour of postponing this GCD so that the guix-science channel team can gain more experience with Codeberg and the PR workflow. Quirks and annoyances like the above can only be found with more time. guix-science moved to Codeberg only in January, IIUC. It's a bit too soon to move the rest of Guix. Postponing the migration will also give us more time to develop automation around Codeberg and see how well that works out. >> [5]: Quick digression: Users must actually download about 1 GiB of data >> on their first guix pull. > > Hum, a bit less than 1GiB of data, no? Yes, indeed, I said "about" 1 GiB. I was providing approximate human-readable numbers. :-) Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2025 20:05:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 06 15:05:26 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45555 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqHTB-0005vb-Uw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:05:26 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o55.zoho.com ([136.143.188.55]:21508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tqHT9-0005vP-2X for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:05:23 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741291511; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=a1KG/zmhS8nFSCK5jBrva5hAHjq0ApN3noz2BuRhm4jTSYfjzJHJh62B+lxLbBqM272zUsFWev3jO/0FN4vx4QyVMMbS+8Xzo4GWu2YPNKbTXe4PITLVRbO1ZJZxNVzMbnqx3CupMeZexHFpmNin9O8k2ApaCZSbGMAJuXlT5ek= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741291511; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=kwHuu1AGGQ7wXBFpaiS8ARK+U5ypjtbm3xAvXqVd99M=; b=PGk+BevgMuMOqX8x0dZ+gDVkfQ8oBOR1sDTWQ2zqXiA96/+4EvETAAvKhZzkPqLdnYPkBIg3woULCN6EHG61Zo3dbFWITp31HRCjn0OjzCURuk3F439HAmk0pUkX/mzazc4xPLiYALHzAqjTRKwxJd61TBT1pRqntW/Zy1/83rQ= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741291511; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=kwHuu1AGGQ7wXBFpaiS8ARK+U5ypjtbm3xAvXqVd99M=; b=TG6x7XmU4zJSCgMePz3TxR8hY1UIT5MnVUoL+heG3CErO1DFicF/Q7pZQXpM9Rb2 wwyt4S/fSCiY8UGi19miu8SX0Ulfe5sJW/esuBkLSYfkcfHQ/C57zgmR9eMU+qtHrUj iW4srpTLF3nnZIjwtWjbaQKlk0rN3DE4kKCuQyxo= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741291507601429.15572507828597; Thu, 6 Mar 2025 12:05:07 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87jz926y93.fsf@HIDDEN> (Simon Tournier's message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:15:52 +0100") References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87wmd33jg5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87jz926y93.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 21:05:03 +0100 Message-ID: <874j062ads.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: arunisaac@HIDDEN, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, ludo@HIDDEN, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>, Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN>, slade@HIDDEN, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Simon, > Somehow, my opinion on this topic is: we should not focus too=20 > much on > the Contributor=E2=80=99s point of view =E2=80=93 do not take me wrong, f= or sure=20 > I=E2=80=99m all > for being friendly, welcoming and inclusive; that=E2=80=99s not the=20 > point. > Instead, we need to focus on Reviewer=E2=80=99s point of view. I agree, you are right about this. I must admit that while I'm in favor of this GCD I'm not familiar=20 with the PR workflow *at the scale of Guix*. We will need tools in support of a reviewer's workflow. I tend to easily get lost, whether that's on issues.guix.gnu.org and mailing=20 list discussions, or on forges with many issues. In the documentation=20 of API endpoints for codeberg.org I have not seen anything that roughly=20 equates to "needs my attention". It seems that on Codeberg the primary means of keeping track of=20 things is through notifications. I fear I might still end up dropping=20 the ball when a PR requires my attention if it gets buried in countless notifications -- especially if I have to keep them unread to ever=20 have a chance of finding them again. Obviously, a fix here would be to=20 adjust my behaviour and not let notifications pile up, but this has no=20 chance of ever happening. (In completely unrelated news: I've got 17532=20 unread Guix emails.) --=20 Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?=
=?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:39:56 +0100
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Hi,
I agree with most of Maxim=E2=80=99s message. I add two points.
On Tue, 04 Mar 2025 at 20:22, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> w=
rote:
> I see the argument that there's an HTTP API for Forgejo; that's great,
> but it requires that everyone relearn another way of doing something
> that already works well enough for me and others, which I'm not too
> excited about. I also assume the Forgejo-related tooling, given their
> young age, would not be as mature and missing features in places, and
> that it would require invested time to comfortably do all that can be
> done today in Gnus and Emacs Debbugs, away from the web interface, in
> the environment of choice (Emacs) of perhaps a majority of the Guix
> contributors.
a) Today, it=E2=80=99s not possible to work offline or by batch. To my
knowledge, there is no tool; at least nothing compatible with
Emacs.
b) Today, it=E2=80=99s not possible to comment on patches without the
web-interface, to my knowledge; least nothing compatible with
Emacs.
( Aside, through my own glasses, it would be a blocker. But I=E2=80=99ve m=
yopia
and I know all people do not have the same lenses. ;-) I mean, I agree
that our workflow reach some limitations and that we need to act now
for helping the review/merge workload. Well, I=E2=80=99m adjusting my
glasses. :-) )
>> Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers would
>> migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
>>
>> For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
>> acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. On
>> that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become
>> https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git. A commit would reflect that by
>> updating:
>
> I'd like to suggest extending the 'trial' period to something much
> longer, like a year or so, to make sure our parachute is properly
> installed before jumping the cliff :-).
I agree. I propose 1. To design the move of the basis of teams in order
to be a bit more incremental [1]. And 2. To help in implementing a
simple one-way bridge [2]: report the open PR inside Debbugs.
Cheers,
simon
1: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:36:29 +0100
id:874j066rqq.fsf@HIDDEN
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/874j066rqq.fsf@HIDDEN
https://yhetil.org/guix/874j066rqq.fsf@HIDDEN
2: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:35:25 +0100
id:875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN
https://yhetil.org/guix/875xkm6rsi.fsf@HIDDEN
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2025 17:40:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 06 12:40:18 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tqFCk-0007pJ-0J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:40:18 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]:58633) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>) id 1tqFCe-0007mJ-Nj for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:40:13 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3912c09be7dso627536f8f.1 for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:40:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741282806; x=1741887606; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xlq6aHJFff3Wq/HSRGQTU1eufa1//JMuNXp8nZ/aYIg=; b=ds4dWmzcqW3PeD7vtDb8OBeCIp1JVFpHBkzQisI4tRXyW/mJRgvLfUl8lQoWmpTEBz FULdQx4YUx1innamenIdsEiqguaHGpfDkd2N83fLon3w9I5Jw5eNbD4fDv3cOyWZ935h 4Mt91w9bzzhXFXG0wMtmwI0pcKu5gFN2pjeFLq2Vh6ZVLkUVcc5M8DiRVBo0L2zTQ+x/ 3zpozKfCx5cWzP7FvfVeFTKLJ6JNuuhIoJ4pyt9NiQ4/MGNenM17DOqTcw4BW/fnFxFQ UZQswCgHptQjNNvKISWqvPyCkjpwJO7WKJPuhBkdx3SjB2DIyBqWWXb3cmGBDndBjsuK MLJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741282806; x=1741887606; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xlq6aHJFff3Wq/HSRGQTU1eufa1//JMuNXp8nZ/aYIg=; b=keaHoWySN1kg13s0loT/TsPUSuh0K1JPr9O0erpJ8L4o73QZRQeRq98rMtxkez2MvR LcMXOKSfs/sGeLpO+Knn2UM+cFhUHfozyHx9LfnhiJQTZ4li3Gy59MQsoCIlHsw/kJGR q4Yg1iHIJCPXahrjolyollJaQ3cqWbRvYnTihLPruzJhB6iHB6JAMw9k7C4Yh66nOH81 CQ6wIqQ9pM9jgjONiffDAgpyZcHF7erCsZcmMo80axEi7XXhHDRUF4YsmJAb/bD40c07 jHjO7aN/rj05kDDaaJD3sHSxXTClNq8n7ow2Bo6Nd9AwmIjPgj+//f4lBf12Brt0l1ay RgCQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUD//CwarGgWDAZGvMSP38y8SrKgSeI2ZU1oLfgzXbTmjGbaj06AXtgN2hT4E7EHZ1gbR3vhA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywt3yf5WfHVzSSiSM0CRJv2TNxZBlWNaBzQyKvBYBnFz87em9+N LxlUUyRFlTeCysd1bdDN92Bw9zCgGhfliUWVOd84Ok5XCpIrr5wQERFLbA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctADjARnuq5deMMASFIHh4y1ooX8A9VGcVwGkFNScEhFeoVvq36dKbFw32ul1g C9Ulx0dRWZoyLPby1vsFDWh4DevdjDfxUaQ3UYzk6FObotWyFgRpL2Rv/SYyTxwEhVYucDGpDJE 3wjT685Pm9ARCvmsiWa9i0c6+RrIEWG82/5iToRGKV7FhxlF9ZR9sM2N61Niz0MUwF2ii9SiPfF dBfaHTE451cio+KU4o2oS/aVunMNWH8IBpeF64EEd1QjqbRVUPkP2dDErnNzKVNFQW3ET8LFM3H W/fKmdZ8KBPTGjKEbu3xe6opj5ThdPNd7tACrhwFflHUt2AsEPn53wjBd31aOi4CPcdaAcTpim5 KpOpr+ewaIxNYhGsnlBQghaVpCgzm0w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHEKd5ZC9jrIAVrlpaOKQlRxV2OwdCQrzUkVNTtbEn8jao/X6H/5Rv8h+Tfo2I108OZPixeFA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2ac:b0:390:f460:77b0 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-39132d3805cmr31388f8f.26.1741282806489; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:40:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from lili (roam-nat-fw-prg-194-254-61-42.net.univ-paris-diderot.fr. [194.254.61.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3912c102d76sm2620569f8f.86.2025.03.06.09.40.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:40:06 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> To: runciter@HIDDEN, "76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: git request-pull (was Re: [bug#76503] [GCD]) In-Reply-To: <U9ssmggQBlFQBjDAWibj3MwwYTg-OPsCUGf3eUrvhye6Qks1D3taPWdE_zw5MF4Oq39sAYrggw0sEMqkK-xm91xd2rS4yihJaGimGwHy1bk=@whispers-vpn.org> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <U9ssmggQBlFQBjDAWibj3MwwYTg-OPsCUGf3eUrvhye6Qks1D3taPWdE_zw5MF4Oq39sAYrggw0sEMqkK-xm91xd2rS4yihJaGimGwHy1bk=@whispers-vpn.org> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:00:15 +0100 Message-ID: <871pva6qn4.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 at 18:07, runciter--- via Guix-patches via <guix-patche= s@HIDDEN> wrote: > Git has a 'request-pull' sub-command: > > git request-pull [-p] <start> <URL> [<end>] Do you mean send to guix-patches the output of this command? If yes, it would still require that the emails is well-formed. Then, it would also require to adapt current extractors in order to get the repository. Such submission would create a temporary branch somewhere, because the Contributor who submitted the request-pull could delete their own branch and/or repository and/or the repository could be down. Therefore, it would also require to adapt current tooling in order to delete the branch once the submission is merged (Debbugs issue closed, roughly). In addition, it would require to adapt again when it=E2=80=99s the second, = third or more revision of the submission. Last, it would not be possible =E2=80=93 to my knowledge =E2=80=93 to comme= nt on a patch basis but you could only have one unique diff of the whole series. This latter point appears to be a blocker for an alternative. Cheers, simon =20
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac
<arunisaac@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <875xkoaers.fsf_-_@HIDDEN>
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN>
<877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87h64dzkc3.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:35:25 +0100
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Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>,
Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>
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Hi,
On Tue, 04 Mar 2025 at 18:26, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> I do want to. But I didn't because I didn't want to overload your
>> personal repo with too many pull requests. Perhaps we can have a pilot
>> period (say 30 days) when both mumi/debbugs patches and codeberg pull
>> requests would be accepted methods to contribute. This may help put
>> people's minds at ease about the transition, and give them some time to
>> adapt their contribution/review worklows.
>
> Yes, having a period where both methods are accepted sounds doable.
>
> The risk is that some things would go unnoticed on one side or the
> other, and during that period we=E2=80=99d be effectively splitting the
> community between =E2=80=9Cthose who prefer email=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ct=
hose who prefer
> Codeberg=E2=80=9D, but if it=E2=80=99s limited to 30 days max, that=E2=80=
=99s probably OK.
Well, I think it=E2=80=99s doable to exploit Codeberg API [1]. Maybe an
implementation on Mumi side.
Somehow, it=E2=80=99s doable to have a tool that collects all PR submission=
s and
opens an issue on Debbugs side. This issue would contain the PR message
and the link to the PR and would have a special subject. For example,
one PR from Guix-Science [2] looks like:
PR#87 WIP: update ghdl to 5.0.1, and add ghdl-lsp.
Please review this submission at:
https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/87=20=20=20=20=
=20=20=20=20
This pr updates ghdl to its most up to date release, and renames
ghdl-clang to ghdl-llvm for consistency with upstream
artifacts. It also fixes the two other packages affected by this
renaming.
Then, it adds a new package, ghdl-lsp, including the language
server capabilities of ghdl (in addition to synthesis and
compiler, that we already have). Updating of python-pyvhdlmodel
and python-pytooling (see 76709) is necessary, so I set this pr
to WIP.
Then, we could list all open issues with the subject =E2=80=9CPR#=E2=80=9C =
and query
Codeberg via the API to have the still open PRs. For the closed PR
ones, Mumi just sends a =E2=80=99done=E2=80=99 control message to Debbugs.
That way, things would not go unnoticed. And you are raising, hey the
submissions to guix-pacthes will be unnoticed by people looking only to
Codeberg. Yes, but! 1. The aim is to move so to encourage people to go
via Codeberg. If the submission is merged faster when open on Codeberg,
then we=E2=80=99ll see the natural migration. ;-)
2. In that cases, etc/teams.scm will still CC teams people so it=E2=80=99s a
mitigation.
This way, it would avoid =E2=80=9CThe Big Move=E2=80=9D and would allow som=
ething more
incremental. For example, I would prefer to have a spread team-basis
migration instead of some quick all-or-nothing migration.
Cheers,
simon
1: https://codeberg.org/api/swagger
PS: Obviously, I volunteer to contribute in the implementation of such
bridging tools. :-)
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac
<arunisaac@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:36:29 +0100
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Hi Ludo,
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 at 22:01, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> wrote:
> I think I was/we were wrong in two ways: first it=E2=80=99s not just about
> providing a web interface, and second there are limitations in our
> workflow that we just cannot overcome, as I tried to explain in the
> =E2=80=9CMotivation=E2=80=9D section. We tried, very hard, and for a rea=
son: a belief
> (as far as I=E2=80=99m concerned) that we could not only be responsible f=
or our
> infra but also, in a way, that we could show fellow free software
> hackers that an alternative development model was possible.
Have we really tried hard? Not about the maintenance, big thanks for
all guix-sysadmin!
About developing the tools: As a project, I would not say =E2=80=9Cwe tried=
very
hard=E2=80=9D. Chris did, almost alone =E2=80=93 thanks Chris for this her=
oic long-term
commitment effort. And about Cuirass, the last effort had been years
ago, to my knowledge.
As I wrote elsewhere, what are the concrete current features that
Codeberg offers against our limitations?
Our main limitation isn=E2=80=99t about contributing but about reviewing, I=
MHO.
Therefore how Codeberg is concretely helping? Not what are the
potentialities that Codeberg offers, but what does Codeberg bring on the
table right now compared to our current workflow?
Well, from my understanding, it=E2=80=99s easier to automatically build a PR
than to automatically extract patches and build them. So, Codeberg
helps right now because of CI. Do I miss another feature that helps
reviewing?=20
> I agree with Leo and the GCD mentions it as well: we need to talk with
> Codeberg e.V. from the start, possibly becoming a voting member, and to
> offer funding.
Hum, are we not putting the eggs before having the basket? :-)
Somehow, instead of a =E2=80=9CBig Move=E2=80=9D, it seems more approachabl=
e to only
move some teams, for example. Something like an incremental
=E2=80=9Cimprovement=E2=80=9D. It would help to have a concrete basis for =
discussing
how we can help them to have a sustainable solution for the Guix
project.
> Codeberg e.V. is specialized so I=E2=80=99d like to believe they have a l=
ot of
> headroom. That they=E2=80=99re transparent and upfront about their scala=
bility
> issues is a rather good sign to me.
What if tomorrow Codeberg closes for whatever the reasons? Obviously,
we will find another solution. :-)
However, what about all the history hosted there? Yes, there is a nice
API and everything is doable. :-) To my knowledge, nothing is done for
having a backup of all the history.
About Debbugs, we have one public-inbox at least. Maybe archived [1] in
Software Heritage since public-inbox is Git-based. ;-)
> Assuming we agree that a move along the lines of this proposal is
> desirable (let me know if you think we don=E2=80=99t share that premise),=
what
> other options would you think of?
I do not know if I share the premise=E2=80=A6 Well, for sure, as discussed=
with
a beer \o/ in Guix Days, I agree that we need to act now because the
current situation raises too much friction and that will be detrimental
for the project in the =E2=80=9Cshort=E2=80=9D term.
What I=E2=80=99m not sure about is the path for moving. Somehow, I find it=
too
much in a hurry. For instance, the GCD reads,
Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers wou=
ld
migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. =
On
that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become
https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git.
when we have not yet discussed hard numbers with Codeberg. Or when we
do not have discussed on Guix Foundation side what could be done for
supporting them.
Similarly, why do we need to move in the same time the Issue Tracker?
Somehow, I would prefer a more incremental move. Because it would help
to improve step after step. Maybe using 2 or 3 steps over the whole
2025 year.
Cheers,
simon
1: The first patch sent to guix-patches, SWH still ingesting when
writing this. :-) So maybe here=E2=80=A6
https://archive.softwareheritage.org/swh:1:cnt;ce7a09543926f7e5717b7a3f8fa3=
c1f6d5fdb5f1
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[194.254.61.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-43bd4352eb1sm53901145e9.31.2025.03.06.08.36.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 06 Mar 2025 08:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Subject: Issue tracker (was Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg) In-Reply-To: <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 17:03:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87bjue6ta3.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo, On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 at 23:33, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> wrote: > Examples: I easily lose track of updated patch versions and comments > because they=E2=80=99re just more unread email in my inbox; Switch from Gnus to Notmuch. ;-) Joke aside, I agree that=E2=80=99s annoying=E2=80=A6 > because they=E2=80=99re just more unread email in my inbox; contributors > sometimes lose track of what they sent, so they open a new issue, and I > find myself digging for the original submission and review; =E2=80=A6and that=E2=80=99s too. Well, I agree it=E2=80=99s become a mess = when the thread=E2=80=99s broken and another issue is open. However, weeks or months later, you can still easily give a look to the submission. That=E2=80=99s not the case with PR: when Contributor deletes = its own branch then it=E2=80=99s more complicated, I guess. One example: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/63 As you see, there=E2=80=99s no Commit or Files Changes because Alexis delet= ed the branch =E2=80=93 yeah because the PR had been merged! :-) Yeah too that= the PR and history is somewhere but not easily accessible. Just to point it can also become messy. :-) Well, I do not have a strong experience on reviewing so I trust your words when you say Codeberg might help here, eventually. However, I think I have an experience about dealing with issues. Well, for what my words are worth, most of what I=E2=80=99ve done are because all= the issues are emails. Somehow, coupling Emacs, Debbugs.el, Notmuch, piem.el and Org-mode is my way to scale. For sure, I will never do bug-triage without such tools. Yes, Codeberg provides a nice API. Yes, it=E2=80=99s up to us to exploit i= t! Yes, I=E2=80=99ve started to give a look. :-) But to my knowledge, nothing= is ready. Therefore, I propose to postpone the discussion about the migration of the =E2=80=9CIssue Tracker=E2=80=9D. Currently, it=E2=80=99s not part of o= ur current limitations, IMHO. Somehow, I propose to delay the migration of the =E2=80=9CIssue Tracker=E2= =80=9D and open a GCD once we have 2-3 months of a full experience with the PR workflow. WDYT? Or do I miss a radically awesome feature? :-) Cheers, simon
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer
<maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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Hi all,
On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 at 10:39, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> wrote:
> The difference is that you don't need to configure "git send-email" or
> configure a local msmtp to send email to guix-devel or other mailing
> lists. For patches sent to guix-patches we recommend configuring "git
> send-email" to avoid garbled patches.
>
> I know from mentoring people that setting up "git send-email" is a
> real hurdle, whereas sending simple emails to participate in
> discussions on a mailing list is not.
While I agree with that about the annoyances of =E2=80=9Cgit send-email=E2=
=80=9D, I also
think that forcing reviewers to have a Codeberg account is a real
hurdle.
Maybe I=E2=80=99ll appear =E2=80=9Celitist=E2=80=9D but if a person is able=
to prepare a patch,
then configuring =E2=80=9Cgit send-email=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t an issue, I=
MHO.
Somehow, my opinion on this topic is: we should not focus too much on
the Contributor=E2=80=99s point of view =E2=80=93 do not take me wrong, for=
sure I=E2=80=99m all
for being friendly, welcoming and inclusive; that=E2=80=99s not the point.
Instead, we need to focus on Reviewer=E2=80=99s point of view.
Our main issue: too much contributions and not enough reviewers and not
enough mergers. Nothing new and the same with most of all Free Software
projects, to my knowledge. However, we reach a point where we need to
act because merging patches is too much friction; and sadly both sides,
Contributors and Reviewers.
Therefore, for me, what does the forge bring that helps the reviewers?
For now, the only tiny difference I see is about CI. It=E2=80=99s easier to
automatically build a PR than to automatically extract patches for
building them.=20
The first time I met* Guix community, it was on December 2018 in
Paris. Well, I also remember that Chris spoke about Continuous
Integration, patchwork and what Chris was doing at the time.
Over the time Chris did an incredible piece of work. When we see QA and
all that, that's amazing! And Ricardo=E2=80=99s initiative with Mumi is al=
so
very nice and helpful =E2=80=93 and thanks Arun for nice features!
All that to say, this GCD raises this question: Do we want to put more
effort on CI and QA? Somehow, improve and/or make various bridges
between QA, CI and guix-patches? Or do we drop that part?
Cheers,
simon
*first time I met: If I remember correctly, Ricardo you came by
night-bus and you took a chocolate cake. <3
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[194.254.61.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-43bdd831719sm26414455e9.0.2025.03.06.08.36.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 06 Mar 2025 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:15:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87ldti6y9c.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Arun, thanks for this analysis. I concur on many points! On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 at 14:03, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> wrote: > In fact, in order to save on disk space, they suggested that we > encourage our contributors to delete their forks once done. :-D Needless > to say, that's never going to happen! Moreover, this raises another concern: Such removal also make the history harder to access and do not really save disk space, IIUC. For one example, consider <https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/63>. As you can see, there is no =E2=80=9CCommit=E2=80=9C and no =E2=80=9CFiles = changed=E2=80=9C. Why? Because Alexis deleted the PR branch. Therefore, harder to know what the PR was about; annoyances. And the history seems still around. For example, we can access to the first version [1,2] and compare with the second (force-pushed) version [3]. Therefore, even using AGit workflow, we need to do some back-to-the-envelope computations and estimate what is the scale of Guix. Then ask if Codeberg has the capacity to host us. Somehow, that=E2=80=99s not an unilateral decision, IMHO. 1: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/commit/a333ccb9b729336501= ae6c51f2c410b0e84ed200 2: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/commit/8ecbff34229c0be0fc= 06fbd3d20122937fea1967 3: https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/compare/8ecbff34229c0be0f= c06fbd3d20122937fea1967..efa112e41ec881bce47a6a287cad6bf2aaad1a96 > [5]: Quick digression: Users must actually download about 1 GiB of data > on their first guix pull. Hum, a bit less than 1GiB of data, no? --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ git clone https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git Cloning into 'guix'... remote: Counting objects: 869271, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (173792/173792), done. remote: Total 869271 (delta 695019), reused 869256 (delta 695009) Receiving objects: 100% (869271/869271), 486.94 MiB | 441.00 KiB/s, done. Resolving deltas: 100% (695019/695019), done. $ du -sh guix 678M guix --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2025 09:50:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 06 04:50:10 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tq7rl-0002uI-RB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 04:50:10 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:37196) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tq7rf-0002tO-Rd for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2025 04:50:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1741254594; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=B0YEzYBYbLrwRDU5K1A+O6IBQoXGX4RcaPTb6TXfvUc=; b=LHpgTPaMOeaDMpUg+03fpg5NbHbWvQgy5pstKkrYMH+hvT6Ba6v7uexU9xOEKroR1cFr8v qUGeO53V3kdwq6xXS4EmmpAXzqI9oARTGu9EE67ieztW7qgRgEg4M5yvfoQBS8L4e64D+1 950Lugs3Ef0mTsYowaFXGwvb0/mnHJzXftSG4KHu0q5j3Hjwb0FkB+WAxRk9bK78SqRo0m wbsg/qLctoqE+3I3YEiKcIXQfnUf76dfsULsN/CWorsQp0/FKSsmYql4gZHpBvc9lE/VO1 b7kOkQdTvil14AcBAa9FISwqBUmxW46TJIQ0ItRx9fDHAEoS9z0X3GrCzNgCNw== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 85cd0464 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 6 Mar 2025 09:49:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87o6yf56je.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87wmd33jg5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o6yf56je.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:49:45 +0000 Message-ID: <87jz92v686.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: ludo@HIDDEN, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>, Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN>, slade@HIDDEN, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I believe git has good documentation for that, but yes, someone would > need to put this blurb in their ~/.gitconfig file: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > [sendemail] > smtpEncryption = tls > smtpServer = some-email-server > smtpUser = your-email > smtpPass = your-password > smtpServerPort = 587 > assume8bitEncoding = utf-8 > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Also, very good instructions are available at https://git-send-email.io/ I don't see why this is particularly hard. But, for some reason, that seems to be the general perception. Perhaps it is seen as hard simply because it is not the mainstream way to do things, and we end up having to expend a lot of effort to compensate for that. One more hurdle, as it were.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87wmd33jg5.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Wed,
05 Mar 2025 10:39:22 +0100")
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<3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:47:33 +0900
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Hi,
Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes:
[...]
> The difference is that you don't need to configure "git send-email" or
> configure a local msmtp to send email to guix-devel or other mailing
> lists. For patches sent to guix-patches we recommend configuring "git
> send-email" to avoid garbled patches.
>
> I know from mentoring people that setting up "git send-email" is a
> real
> hurdle, whereas sending simple emails to participate in discussions on
> a
> mailing list is not.
I believe git has good documentation for that, but yes, someone would
need to put this blurb in their ~/.gitconfig file:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
[sendemail]
smtpEncryption = tls
smtpServer = some-email-server
smtpUser = your-email
smtpPass = your-password
smtpServerPort = 587
assume8bitEncoding = utf-8
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Which shouldn't be much more difficult than setting up SSH keys to be
able to push to your Codeberg fork, it seems.
--
Thanks,
Maxim
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 16:23:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 05 11:23:47 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tprX9-0000BF-1h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 11:23:47 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:49242) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tprX5-0000Az-VQ for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 11:23:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8374C6; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 17:23:37 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: hera.aquilenet.fr; none X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id GdYl8y1gvQIT; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 17:23:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44B30263; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 17:23:34 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Tue, 04 Mar 2025 20:22:59 +0900") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 17:23:33 +0100 Message-ID: <871pvb1m62.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5C8374C6 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.40 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%]; NEURAL_SPAM(3.00)[1.000]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ X-Rspamd-Action: add header X-Spam-Level: ****** X-Spam: Yes X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Hi, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis: >> Developing and maintaining this software and infrastructure is >> time-consuming. Worse, it leaves contributors largely dissatisfied for >> a variety of reasons: > > I don't think maintaining the infrastructure *that would be replaced* > has been too time consuming. Let=E2=80=99s not underestimate the development work by Ricardo, Arun, and = Chris over these tools for years (7 years for mumi), but also the everyday sysadmin work done to keep things running. > Sure, Mumi has had some issues and needed some fixing, but most of > what is used today: > > - Savannah (git hosting) > - Debbugs (bug tracker) & Mumi > - Git configs/hooks > - Contributing documentation > > rarely ever changes and has been stable, all while being generously > hosted, without limits on repository size or other criteria, on I wouldn=E2=80=99t say that Savannah has been stable; debbugs.gnu.org is ru= nning an unpublished, non-version-controlled fork of the original Debbugs running on a single machine, manually-modified every now and then (I know because I tried to rectify this back then, and so did Felix I believe). I agree that maintenance of these is largely a given for Guix. But let=E2=80=99s not idealize it: there is a huge technical debt in all this infrastructure. > freedom-respecting hardware and a friendly associated org (FSF/GNU), > which I assume can't be said of Codeberg (w.r.t. using free software > friendly hardware, such as using the GNU Boot bootloader). That may be true, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t blame them given what it costed us= to run one server with a free BIOS=C2=B9. Codeberg/Forgejo volunteers are free software activists though. =C2=B9 Andreas gave a good account of this story in <https://10years.guix.gnu.org/video/ten-years-of-failures/>. > The parts that have required the most maintenance would be, I assume, CI > (Cuirass) and QA (Guix Build Coordinator), but these components will > continue to be used in the event we migrate to Codeberg, so we wouldn't > gain much on the maintenance side, it seems. Correct. Though, as the GCD states, it would reduce the number of services and amount of code to maintain (Patchwork, email parsing, etc.) > I believe some of the above, such as notifying everyone involved in a > ticket's discussion when replying, has been/could be tackled in the > improved GNU Debbugs rewrite that Felix has been refining and testing > [0, 1]. I think improving Debbugs for the whole of GNU (the Emacs > project actively use it still for example) would make sense and is > something I've been meaning to do, but not high in my priority list > (since it already works well enough for the most part). Hacking a small > Perl code base doesn't appear much more daunting than the modern > Go-written, web framework library heavy mastodon I assume > Gitea/Forgejo is, so I'm not sure why we wouldn't try this first > instead. I can't help but feel like we'd be throwing the baby out with > the bathwater: in my view, the current situation is not as bad as > suggested in your outlook, though I agree further automation and > simplifications would be welcome. I held this view for many years, which is part of why we have this infrastructure; we=E2=80=99re not throwing the baby with the bathwater, we = have a decade of experience. I think this endeavor hasn=E2=80=99t been as fruit= ful as we had hoped for and that it=E2=80=99s holding back the project now. (For the record, Forgejo is known to be lightweight; the code base is =E2=80=9Chuman-sized=E2=80=9D and easy to navigate IME.) > My reading of the survey's results was that the main concern of the > community was packages' freshness and availability. Our backlog is > already larger than we can handle. As others noted, better tooling is likely to improve reviewer throughput. Of course nobody can guarantee any speedup, but there are hints suggesting that. I have been using the PR style (initially reluctantly) for Guix-Science, Guix-HPC, and related repositories; I find it easier to see where my attention is needed and what the status of patches is. That=E2=80=99s also the reason I=E2=80=99ve been inviting people to give it= a try: I initially knew very well what I loved about the email workflow and what I hated about the PR workflow, but only through experience did I discover good things about the PR workflow. > One serious usability quirk I can foresee is that given our current > PGP-based security design, The =E2=80=9CMerge=E2=80=9D button would be disabled, as noted in the GCD. > - Issues won't be closed automatically since we can't use the merge > button. There=E2=80=99s an =E2=80=9Cautodetect manual merge=E2=80=9D feature; it=E2= =80=99s not as =E2=80=9Cauto=E2=80=9D as one might like but it=E2=80=99s okay. > - Both PR and issues must then be closed manually, which is what we > currently have Issues are closed automatically upon =E2=80=9CFixes #123=E2=80=9D messages = in commits. Please give it a spin; it=E2=80=99s not perfect but it=E2=80=99s much bette= r than what you suggest. :-) > I'd like to suggest extending the 'trial' period to something much > longer, like a year or so, to make sure our parachute is properly > installed before jumping the cliff :-). Letting both systems co-exist > and compete for merit seems a good trial, and we could also extract > useful data (such as how many contributions were merged on one or the > other, etc.). It'd be a bit annoying to keep an eye at two places for > some time, but at least we wouldn't commit to something that may not > scale/match our peculiar requirements as well as we expected. As noted in my reply to Arun=C2=B2, I think there=E2=80=99s a risk of split= ting the community if this experiment were too last for several months (Arun proposed 30-day coexistence period, with eventual migration to Codeberg). But maybe you can propose wording to amend the GCD? =C2=B2 https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76503#37 > After such trial we could then vote on whether we want to fully migrate > to Codeberg, when all regular contributors would have gotten a chance to > try the new tools and find a flow that works for them, hopefully. With > this insurance in place, I'd be happy to experiment with Codeberg and > see whether it truly improves things. The GCD process is about collectively building a proposal; there=E2=80=99s = no voting. I would encourage everyone to propose changes to the proposal to address their concerns=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s a living document. As for experimenting, I agree and I reiterate my invitation to send trivial patches to <https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix> (or to Guix-Science, Guix-Past, etc.). I think this GCD=E2=80=99s discussion peri= od is the right time to give it a try as it can better inform discussions. Thanks for your feedback! Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87senrk6mc.fsf@HIDDEN> (Nicolas Graves's message of "Wed, 05
Mar 2025 13:24:27 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87senrk6mc.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 16:39:28 +0100
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Content preview: Hi Nicolas, Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN> skribis: >
have a tremendous amount of data (for git commits, git commit messages, >
email exchanges) that could be used to train specialized AI agents that >
could be very useful in CI / development contexts. [...]
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Content preview: Hi Nicolas, Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN> skribis: >
have a tremendous amount of data (for git commits, git commit messages, >
email exchanges) that could be used to train specialized AI agents that >
could be very useful in CI / development contexts. [...]
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Hi Nicolas,
Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN> skribis:
> have a tremendous amount of data (for git commits, git commit messages,
> email exchanges) that could be used to train specialized AI agents that
> could be very useful in CI / development contexts. A few examples on the
> top of my mind:
> - a commit message help complying with GNU standards
> - a "rebuilder" agent, to try and rebuild a package that has failed when
> the change is trivial (such as ignoring a test / try updating a
> dependency). (This could be a "crew" of agents checking for
> compilability, lints, build failures... with MCP protocoal and each
> agent having its specific training data / RAG).
I=E2=80=99m skeptical to say the least, as I wrote elsewhere regarding
<https://doi.org/10.1109/SC41406.2024.00090> =E2=80=94 but this is off-topi=
c.
> Even if that would demand a coordinated effort anyway, I think the move
> to codeberg would make this more difficult ;
Overall, the API that Codeberg and similar services provides makes it
easier to grab data about a project, not more difficult, first and
foremost because there=E2=80=99s one uniform API to access everything: issu=
es,
pull requests, CI/CD reports, repo activity, and much more.
This can be seen in =E2=80=9Cempirical software studies=E2=80=9D such as th=
ose submitted
to the Mining Software Repositories (MSR) conference. None of what=E2=80=
=99s
done in these studies would be possible when dealing with a patchwork of
informally-connected tools like the one we have.
Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 12:24:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 05 07:24:37 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpnng-0003z8-HQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 07:24:37 -0500 Received: from 12.mo582.mail-out.ovh.net ([178.32.125.228]:55955) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ngraves@HIDDEN>) id 1tpnnb-0003yv-Pc for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 07:24:35 -0500 Received: from director1.ghost.mail-out.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.25.233]) by mo582.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z7BZ533Nsz1RLk for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 12:24:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ghost-submission-5b5ff79f4f-8wfrz (unknown [10.110.101.166]) by director1.ghost.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C02B91FE72; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 12:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ngraves.fr ([37.59.142.102]) by ghost-submission-5b5ff79f4f-8wfrz with ESMTPSA id 58W3D3xCyGdmrgAAFoMLRA (envelope-from <ngraves@HIDDEN>); Wed, 05 Mar 2025 12:24:28 +0000 Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-102R004fd115276-7411-48c5-ae62-f2fdd0317072, B81FB1927537205B1F66C708DA833F3DA1DB08C1) smtp.auth=ngraves@HIDDEN X-OVh-ClientIp: 90.92.117.144 From: Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 13:24:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87senrk6mc.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 4790985581884727861 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddutdegkedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfdpvefjgfevmfevgfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecuhedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvvefujghffffkgggtgfesthhqredttddtjeenucfhrhhomheppfhitgholhgrshcuifhrrghvvghsuceonhhgrhgrvhgvshesnhhgrhgrvhgvshdrfhhrqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehffeiveffvdfgvdfhieeuueeitdeviefglefhjeefveefheehhedtiedvvedvffenucffohhmrghinhepfhhorhhgvghjohdrohhrghdpghhnuhdrohhrghdpghhuihigrdhinhhfohdptghouggvsggvrhhgrdhorhhgnecukfhppeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdeltddrledvrdduudejrddugeegpdefjedrheelrddugedvrddutddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepuddvjedrtddrtddruddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehnghhrrghvvghssehnghhrrghvvghsrdhfrhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepuddprhgtphhtthhopeejieehtdefseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorhhgpdfovfetjfhoshhtpehmohehkedvmgdpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhht DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=TXQfC9XUFisn4LsQcLHaZcGwSY9kEFeh21u/pohHyAI=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ngraves.fr; h=From; s=ovhmo4487190-selector1; t=1741177469; v=1; b=dxKu6tEyfQjmRh5b82fRMsPBfOiUEbddq9C3bkJ/o67Xwf0o5INgY7PmToPQd9ELaLh+aUks C6TSUsB0RdqG7hbGx2o+OWnD/7Eqh6/SncczqEl+guuQU0MtUUl1SnyO1R9VbcYd0aydSmZmQu2 JN2GhGPd0StVS43QSNcRhiS3OuX9sNoD1OQgY6NwADb6wAOQ8AQBzG2wL+E17BjsTlxk8Zoah6P jV8UyaopuCmEaMgHjC5bY9SFIu5J7vhxGQr4qLBMkyYrViLywG1zTxe3rLhERAO79IXWyS5cOFg 6tKIJ/3hWrly39b1lw4k24NeeFMB7IdSeQUjWFsMn9nLg== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-02-23 16:20, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > Hello Guix! > > [...] > ## Continuous Integration > > Forgejo supports > [*webhooks*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/webhooks/), `POST` > requests that are sent to the server of one=E2=80=99s choice upon events = such as > pull request creation. Cuirass (running at ci.guix.gnu.org) already > [supports](https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2025/01/join-the-guix-science-commu= nity/) > them and automatically creates a *jobset* when a pull request is made. > The [QA frontpage](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) and its [Data > Service](https://data.qa.guix.gnu.org) does not support Forgejo webhooks > yet but can be extended to do so without too much effort, possibly > sharing or reusing the Forgejo interface code from Cuirass. > > In the Guix repository, we will set up webhooks to trigger the creation > of a new jobset at ci.guix.gnu.org (Cuirass) as soon as migration is > complete. While this has been successfully used for several months for > [Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science), scalability will be > the major concern here; additional developments may be needed to > consolidate this support. Eventually the QA frontpage will also support > those webhooks. > > We will arrange so that the build status of a pull request is clearly > visible right from that pull request. > > Eventually, the QA service or a [Forgejo > *action*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/actions/) may > automatically provide feedback from `guix lint` as a reply to pull > requests. > > ## Workflow > > Once continuous integration (CI) is fully operational, pull requests may > be merged if and only if they successfully built. =E2=80=9CWorld-rebuild= =E2=80=9D pull > requests would still follow the [existing branching > process](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Managing-Patches-= and-Branches.html). > > Note that since Guix requires signed commits by people listed in > `.guix-authorizations`, we will *not* be able to click the =E2=80=9CMerge= =E2=80=9D > button nor to enable auto-merge on build success. > > If and when the project migrates, we will incrementally adjust our > workflow to ensure it scales better. There is one thing I'm not sure someone raised earlier about ownership and ease of access to data. I hate a lot of AI usage/goals , but I think we should take advantage of the research in this field when convenient and for a worthwhile goal (that is : not making money by stealing people's attention). It seems we have a tremendous amount of data (for git commits, git commit messages, email exchanges) that could be used to train specialized AI agents that could be very useful in CI / development contexts. A few examples on the top of my mind: - a commit message help complying with GNU standards - a "rebuilder" agent, to try and rebuild a package that has failed when the change is trivial (such as ignoring a test / try updating a dependency). (This could be a "crew" of agents checking for compilability, lints, build failures... with MCP protocoal and each agent having its specific training data / RAG). (The goal is not to make the user less responsible but instead waste less time doing what is trivial.) Think about it : when rebuilding a package that is core to a build-system, such as python, instead of spending the most part of a week doing minor tweaks on hundreds packages, just let the background job run a week until it only leaves "truly" difficult packages for teams and maintainers. With some luck, since the tasks could be specialized, we might already have enough data to train internally. What's really good is that we might be able to only use guix data to train and use this kind of helpers. Accessing this data in batch, through the git repository, mailing lists, failed logs from build farms..., is possible at this date. Even if that would demand a coordinated effort anyway, I think the move to codeberg would make this more difficult ; I also think guix's guile and lists coherence is a strong advantage we don't take enough in consideration (I don't think Nix would be able to have these kind of helpers around, whereas it seems doable in Guix). (This is not against moving to codeberg, but more about being mindful of what we might loose on this aspect). --=20 Best regards, Nicolas Graves
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 13:14:23 +0200
From: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN>
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
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On Tue, Mar 04, 2025 at 08:22:59PM +0900, Maxim Cournoyer wrote:
> Hi Ludovic,
>=20
> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
>=20
> [...]
> - The merge button in web UI would need to be disabled or documented as
> prohibited (I doubt we'd even be able to disable it? or we'd need to
> ensure the merge can be fast-forwarded and is already signed, which
> would be a bit annoying since we'd need to not only fetch + rebase but
> then visit the web interface to merge a change). It can all be
> automated via the HTTP API I'm sure, but that wouldn't be much of an
> improvement (if at all) over our current flow.
>=20
> I suspect not being able to follow the expected way of merging things
> probably further implies that:
>=20
> - Issues won't be closed automatically since we can't use the merge
> button.
> - Both PR and issues must then be closed manually, which is what we
> currently have
> - The flow would be *even* more confusing than now, since it'd look
> like Github but require committers to use it very differently.
>=20
> Which would again need more custom tools/scripts as a workaround.
>=20
> [...]
> Thank you for proposing this GCD!
>=20
> --=20
> Maxim
>=20
I grabbed the following from one of the projects I've found on codeberg,
=66rom an open pull request. The formatting didn't copy over, so I've
reformatted it a bit. I assume if we have "autodetect manual merge"
turned on then we wouldn't get the warning listed next to merge.
x This pull request has changes conflicting with the target branch.
* src/actions/repo/create.rs
=E2=86=93 View command line instructions
# Checkout
=46rom your project repository, check out a new branch and test the changes.
```
git fetch -u https://codeberg.org/gekkowrld/codeberg-cli list:gekkowrld-list
git checkout gekkowrld-list
```
# Merge
Merge the changes and update on Forgejo.
Warning: The "Autodetect manual merge" setting is not enabled for this repo=
sitory, you will have to mark this pull request as manually merged afterwar=
ds.
```
git checkout main
git merge --no-ff gekkowrld-list
git push origin main
```
--=20
Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D =
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 09:39:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 05 04:39:39 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35301 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tplE3-0001BK-EE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 04:39:39 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21173) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tplE0-0001B8-2R for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 04:39:37 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741167569; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=L/L4StPod3NmhUqU6aYbnivs1HGVI6bP02ZMwso1898269RnCInxFyLZjpbcNZsYRB+KbJWI9w6Mb9wTLjyMoxzikAUHNRBDBfj/rzp3quVL3SZxayQRLt7hWbXofZd7STl7/frvRx3maVW91iFK/Eqtah/kwxi4p2LWxu32cwc= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741167569; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=AUkGPgpXzl3gec3I03pmkH4Kj39dvyMeZsIzRBPgoqA=; b=UtFz1W6/BvqV8luGlGNSqh3lUMaHJqFO8nrKi6cq6Tuz6mmR9zOywSEX/eVUoHXkxPYJnYGFiKG9ZI3poUz+Fcy22fArFFdRObPxoNAcH9u4cOevSTw4zNRwdC2rnk5yc55YsKbCvZw/CzqvpEDB2b0NR2hQulyYP08PWzisss4= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741167569; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=AUkGPgpXzl3gec3I03pmkH4Kj39dvyMeZsIzRBPgoqA=; b=K5QLtCNo17Cv6sTdWpdKqoy0EIn2t1Oosh2i51x3U9pu/bgSuIWscZO9pOcnaXq3 4KT8GNpnVMYyLSNojmL1rsNChtk2eslsKcog3CIrOgL68Rlp4rkI1m71WqdCcQiVPge pJYFIMFMt1BOLk1JNBkTVKTKkbYjB8fn8kECExIU= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741167565950804.8002804112288; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 01:39:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:39:01 +0900") References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:39:22 +0100 Message-ID: <87wmd33jg5.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: arunisaac@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>, Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN>, slade@HIDDEN, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> writes: > Hi, > > Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN> writes: > >>> On Feb 25, 2025, at 10:04 AM, Cayetano Santos via Guix-patches=20 >>> via <guix-patches@HIDDEN> wrote: >>> Still, I wonder how Github >>> educated people, reluctant to email exchange, will react to a >>>=20 >>> git push origin HEAD:refs/for/<target-branch>/<session> >>>=20 >>> based workflow, and if this really lowers the barrier to=20 >>> entry[1]. >> The linked page refers to a tool called =E2=80=9Cgit-repo=E2=80=9D, whic= h=20 >> smooths out >> the more technical bits to commands like =E2=80=9Cgit pr=E2=80=9D. From= =20 >> appearances it >> seems like using this tool is lower-investment for users than >> configuring (or changing!) their email client to interact with=20 >> mailing >> lists and the mail-in patch workflow properly. It also helps=20 >> that this >> (optional?) special tool is more =E2=80=9Corthogonal=E2=80=9D to other=20 >> workflows, >> rather than involving something as central as emails. > > You'd still need an email client to interact with guix-devel and=20 > our > other mailing lists, or to create the request to merge a feature=20 > branch > that QA understand (until this is adapted/changed to use=20 > something > else). The difference is that you don't need to configure "git=20 send-email" or configure a local msmtp to send email to guix-devel or other=20 mailing lists. For patches sent to guix-patches we recommend configuring=20 "git send-email" to avoid garbled patches. I know from mentoring people that setting up "git send-email" is a=20 real hurdle, whereas sending simple emails to participate in=20 discussions on a mailing list is not. --=20 Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 09:35:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 05 04:35:57 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tplAT-00013w-Hs for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 04:35:57 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21126) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tplAQ-00013l-Li for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 04:35:55 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741167336; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=il0uUsexw4mtyVvc0qCtmP2IyjbtkR/kmEJAzlb4paINFPYEAoG0xnuU3ZDiDGvCtHofruhWThulKUgYaIxkw589QHqXMfQiH3yWNrUS5oGcGbMBnZXVYI1y6mp5gSRHpfIR/fX25Ll9VqqaK/WNGcA/T/xJ5oIiyWr0bgi69Xc= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741167336; h=Content-Type:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=GDhMwV541DARJ0zqNNX6S/gaL5UvCwqUh3l4gZTQoJ0=; b=balzNbUS8Nrrj13leJDJtWuYleUER1RyrEWh7ace0lETvWxaK119tu3WiDyHxgNFjtMJpjey0T9+RUbO4CtFJh0XrTpRUm2a6hNafTvvt8gefpOEkgvXeTcQP3xWO5SSnveNtv19004IKkVaZtqSrXsDhLA0rDI+5cjmKVjytGE= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741167336; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=GDhMwV541DARJ0zqNNX6S/gaL5UvCwqUh3l4gZTQoJ0=; b=HqgZ4vkUjqElR7dhAv+5PHZa02hewUiqT5qVLkzPKQAdowTWOxhOU103VPFykMWi g0/u7qNJjfc1XxwShK1yJmV+ZOMIP4yAonDn/gIG+rGiDph2E9EvWl6eh0bkGHT6hQX 5WggIUkwUXGcHYlNJanoTMbDJejwGfRXjYSdq27c= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741167332616409.9891445684236; Wed, 5 Mar 2025 01:35:32 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Alexis Simon <alexis.simon@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <2c40b4a0-efa8-4e40-92e6-04d0c69f7797@HIDDEN> (Alexis Simon's message of "Wed, 5 Mar 2025 09:09:37 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h648i95l.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <2c40b4a0-efa8-4e40-92e6-04d0c69f7797@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <8734fr4y72.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Alexis Simon <alexis.simon@HIDDEN> writes: > Everyone preferring (or simply only knowing) the classic fork-PR > can > go this way. Correct. > Any person that would prefer not forking and working mostly from > the > command-line can do so through the Agit flow. > > But from the commiter/reviewer POV, this will look identical, > i.e. a > PR on the repo. This is correct. -- Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 08:10:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 05 03:10:11 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34704 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpjpS-0004ez-AY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 03:10:11 -0500 Received: from mailtransmit05.runbox.com ([2a0c:5a00:149::26]:38518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <alexis.simon@HIDDEN>) id 1tpjpM-0004eB-Sv for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 03:10:07 -0500 Received: from mailtransmit03.runbox ([10.9.9.163] helo=aibo.runbox.com) by mailtransmit05.runbox.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <alexis.simon@HIDDEN>) id 1tpjp8-00600v-Qc; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:09:50 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=runbox.com; s=selector1; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:From: References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID; bh=fqSXQ/ObSLLTv8uyLCw8LQyOrsUq0SpAtX8uZ169e4k=; b=sj1mBXkO4QfFh/hd9NbVxqn3NV OOr0egVvALU2H24egy4Mz+l4D7ATxBymc87rU73j47ub+7/JT/10nnH03gk/eKhCeZRPG/A9dmqHS uXKKfr4ex4RyOHsT9EoLJxaXq/9uOpn4QGFZ2c0fIRRe7rkR8Z5zB2zdRq3P2OllWv2mWVcJwy8++ 1McoQTnZrHJwSDMaD8NGFDus4bBwBbFj+pVcRFnfVg0/V7TgVXLrJBx1VCK/kSpZwAQSKTwIxadO0 3WU5nnGidudqF5bbZC0DVSmSJasf3YhhYTNrPGQk4XngheSd11SPcC4qc9l+MLzB4VWJmRUSfeU4+ 6rfbtR4g==; Received: from [10.9.9.74] (helo=submission03.runbox) by mailtransmit03.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from <alexis.simon@HIDDEN>) id 1tpjp6-00042C-O7; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:09:48 +0100 Received: by submission03.runbox with esmtpsa [Authenticated ID (1174703)] (TLS1.2:ECDHE_SECP256R1__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256) (Exim 4.93) id 1tpjow-005WxH-GG; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:09:38 +0100 Message-ID: <2c40b4a0-efa8-4e40-92e6-04d0c69f7797@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 09:09:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h648i95l.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US, fr From: Alexis Simon <alexis.simon@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h648i95l.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello, I don't really understand this whole thread and worry about the Agit flow. I think some information was lost along the way. From my understanding of the GCD and other discussions, both the classic PR github-like flow and Agit can live happily together. And the GCD does not propose to only allow the Agit flow. Everyone preferring (or simply only knowing) the classic fork-PR can go this way. Any person that would prefer not forking and working mostly from the command-line can do so through the Agit flow. But from the commiter/reviewer POV, this will look identical, i.e. a PR on the repo. Am I missing something? The issue of not having a merge button comes from another set of considerations (signing). Cheers, Alexis On 05/03/2025 02:00, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > Hi Ricardo, > > Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes: > > [...] > >> The Github workflow is more complicated: >> >> - fork the repository on the forge website >> - clone your fork from the forge to your local machine >> - checkout a new branch >> - make a commit >> - push the commit from your local checkout to your fork on the forge >> - go to the forge website to open a pull request from your fork to >> the upstream repository >> >> The AGit flow: >> >> - clone the upstream repository >> - checkout a new branch >> - make a commit >> - push the commit as a PR to the forge. >> >> Am I overlooking something? > > At least two of the points this GCD is supposed to improve on is: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > - the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers; > - the tools and infrastructure in Guix have become a maze; > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > What would arguably be most familiar to newcomers is the Github-style PR > flow, whether we like it or not, and Gitea/Forgejo is a designed as a > clone of Github, even at its API level, so I'm pretty sure the PR flow > would be the intuitive expectation of newcomers interacting with it. > > Using other flows that require typing command lines or abstracting these > via other tools is just changing a set of "weird" tools to another set > of "weird" tools, from a newcomer's perspective. > > I'm not saying I don't see any positives to migrating to Codeberg, but > that if we can't use the PR flow then the points I quoted above do not > appear improved much by such a move. >
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Tue, 04 Mar 2025 17:00:35 -0800 (PST) From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Tue, 04 Mar 2025 18:19:32 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:00:22 +0900 Message-ID: <87h648i95l.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ricardo, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes: [...] > The Github workflow is more complicated: > > - fork the repository on the forge website > - clone your fork from the forge to your local machine > - checkout a new branch > - make a commit > - push the commit from your local checkout to your fork on the forge > - go to the forge website to open a pull request from your fork to > the upstream repository > > The AGit flow: > > - clone the upstream repository > - checkout a new branch > - make a commit > - push the commit as a PR to the forge. > > Am I overlooking something? At least two of the points this GCD is supposed to improve on is: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- - the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers; - the tools and infrastructure in Guix have become a maze; --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- What would arguably be most familiar to newcomers is the Github-style PR flow, whether we like it or not, and Gitea/Forgejo is a designed as a clone of Github, even at its API level, so I'm pretty sure the PR flow would be the intuitive expectation of newcomers interacting with it. Using other flows that require typing command lines or abstracting these via other tools is just changing a set of "weird" tools to another set of "weird" tools, from a newcomer's perspective. I'm not saying I don't see any positives to migrating to Codeberg, but that if we can't use the PR flow then the points I quoted above do not appear improved much by such a move. -- Thanks, Maxim
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Tue, 04 Mar 2025 16:39:15 -0800 (PST) From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> To: Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> (Andrew Wong's message of "Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:37:25 -0500") References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:39:01 +0900 Message-ID: <87ldtkia56.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, arunisaac@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN, Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>, slade@HIDDEN, rekado@HIDDEN, guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN> writes: >> On Feb 25, 2025, at 10:04 AM, Cayetano Santos via Guix-patches via <guix= -patches@HIDDEN> wrote: >> Still, I wonder how Github >> educated people, reluctant to email exchange, will react to a >>=20 >> git push origin HEAD:refs/for/<target-branch>/<session> >>=20 >> based workflow, and if this really lowers the barrier to entry[1]. > The linked page refers to a tool called =E2=80=9Cgit-repo=E2=80=9D, which= smooths out > the more technical bits to commands like =E2=80=9Cgit pr=E2=80=9D. From a= ppearances it > seems like using this tool is lower-investment for users than > configuring (or changing!) their email client to interact with mailing > lists and the mail-in patch workflow properly. It also helps that this > (optional?) special tool is more =E2=80=9Corthogonal=E2=80=9D to other wo= rkflows, > rather than involving something as central as emails. You'd still need an email client to interact with guix-devel and our other mailing lists, or to create the request to merge a feature branch that QA understand (until this is adapted/changed to use something else). --=20 Thanks, Maxim
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spampanel-Class: ham X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2025-03-04 19:55, Noé Lopez wrote: > > Here’s my point of view: > - clone the upstream repository > - make commits > - format patches > - configure git send-mail > - …or find out which addresses to send the mail and who to cc with > etc/teams.scm > - send email > Of course, I was just making it simple on purpose. Those points you address here have "easy" answers (my point being: as "easy" as agit-flow, with quotes), once you configure, you don't have to type the email addresses anymore. The point what I wanted to make is not that it is really easier or not (without quotes), but the fact that it doesn't matter. It's different to what people expect, and that's going to create friction. > Which is more complicated than the AGit flow IMO. And we will need > documentation on how to contribute no matter which way we choose. The heavy use of --push-option/-o is pretty weird for people that never did that before (I never used that before and I have quite a long experience collaborating in free software projects), the refspec usage agit-flow needs is not widely known either. - Was it refs/for/master or was it /for-review/ or what? - Oh the -o description="..." takes a string but I want a multiline thing that is getting too long. - Oh no! the pr messed up my formatting again! ... Well, at least the email we can write it in a proper editor very easily. I don't know if that's the case in the -o unless we hack around... (anyway, that's not the point here) > What I especially like about the AGit flow is that it just uses git, > which is a common factor. No need for an alternate patch format, or > email. Well, patches are a part of git as --push-option is (Codeberg PRs are not part of Guix, though), so I don't think this makes a good argument. But regardless, my point was that when this issue was discussed, for example, in a thread I started a while ago about the future of Guix, the arguments I found were that Guix was too hard on newcomers and that we needed to use a forge like any body else, because that's what people is used to. I still doubt that applying the Github workflow (or any other workflow) is going to increase the amount of meaningful contributions (Guix is already too hard as it is, it's not like the email workflow was the hardest part of Guix) and I'm aware the move to Codeberg doesn't only try to fix the commit workflow but also many other things, which I agree with. I just wanted to emphasize that if we are not letting people use the merge button and we are going to use agit-flow or anything like that, we are not going to make it obviously simple. And it's going to make the committers' (our real bottleneck) life a little bit hard for some time until we get used to this and we become as efficient with it as we are now. Cheers, Ekaitz
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2025 18:56:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 04 13:56:12 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpXR6-0007Dv-F8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 13:56:12 -0500 Received: from smtp.domeneshop.no ([2a01:5b40:0:3006::1]:43812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <noe@HIDDEN>) id 1tpXR2-0007DY-Nq for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 13:56:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xn--no-cja.eu; s=ds202502; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date: Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3cfyldxhey7Ux3O9tjpMniOKMqKuNF0hxgE1AmZoIoc=; b=UrglU7tkolAFLiUvKANTk4DBPN o1A4QiHP47emEprpR8aAnqIYMFxYo+rwubFZoghlJ9iuJf+ie7quRXzqKO6rlmQ198qTdtIYeuKGT 4ADkb/qn39Cw2t67wlU+KdriD09LHEQ83KhMhNyWmK45UMQhq7XlIS3uLma+EnOeISk3ts/U8ROuB 1+9t4s/2JFAKJVlsOs0wvuMmk6lx5unIJowd/HfqfsSq5qetVsCF1hVDyzKCMRRZWRVS4FAKsqUCa PPi6dgehqIDRjg+SDdrkxrkgBlhTgELD8LAtctDdGl6lJkcWDnx8i6WBG1l7zv+irJKWKEyqHkQt/ ZvQbROaA==; Received: from smtp by smtp.domeneshop.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) id 1tpXQu-009Y0j-9D; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 19:56:00 +0100 From: =?utf-8?Q?No=C3=A9?= Lopez <noe@HIDDEN> To: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <6b4256d6-be7f-43c8-be3b-c2b0921dd043@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> <6b4256d6-be7f-43c8-be3b-c2b0921dd043@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 19:55:57 +0100 Message-ID: <877c5462wy.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> writes: > On 2025-03-04 18:19, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: >>=20 >> The AGit flow: >>=20 >> - clone the upstream repository >> - checkout a new branch >> - make a commit >> - push the commit as a PR to the forge. > > Yes but no. > It's easy, but if we are going to make any contributor do that, we are=20 > still going to need documentation and people will come and complain. > > Isn't the email based workflow as simple as: > > - clone the upstream repository > - make commits > - send email Here=E2=80=99s my point of view: =2D clone the upstream repository =2D make commits =2D format patches =2D configure git send-mail =2D =E2=80=A6or find out which addresses to send the mail and who to cc with etc/teams.scm =2D send email Which is more complicated than the AGit flow IMO. And we will need documentation on how to contribute no matter which way we choose. What I especially like about the AGit flow is that it just uses git, which is a common factor. No need for an alternate patch format, or email. 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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Tue, 4 Mar 2025 18:34:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.soverin.net; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=elenq.tech header.i=@elenq.tech header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=soverin1 header.b=QGO20ty6; dkim-atps=neutral DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=elenq.tech; s=soverin1; t=1741113244; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=arQLB3XoaCtCP5F8Vr1EWtq5DRnLEtpOQnHvj5Fu7Kk=; b=QGO20ty6e9/CM2WaypJVjh+HDJsfyWoIPTps/E8FDUV9CX6ZFV2iV4ZKIeWZjexiLrolim 0gBQeWjCddX9UBPe0XvTus+NepCIq3lavngA8ROEOb3WoALjBcvm3byMzhYchw6zmO0Z1r BRBUNtnGUJ3j8GFOOoAZzAVBmgGLnQ+T3rJL+r3Z+hpG6QhBN6l5794IbvBeXojN9f9Ecw wd+PCTw2AY0A0O+SYfhocmontiCKopqwwS6IiEVY7kk5c6Zrf6g+dyt+q3dhYlxzHAunTC b48edJKG4zBxjQbrxHAnsjVWS3IdhuV0WU/dQvEJOxtbrzGHcgsi5nnm+h1Kzw== X-CM-Envelope: MS4xfCdsh/JAv7vhaSSy2m9cuXWUw9a+f2QVfCrW6xxvvk+jawVxdLudbek9ubluZci4Z2vVllJSqbJKN7ADOXI/1oSMOvHRRJaNeCdgJdTcQmu9/HSERvDF LUp3uR5k4AhqCxAGM7NyG99hRaTieyjU078UBt7PUivXLS/Rb/q80TBUN5AT2bM3C43C8h8RJuz1MJE3Y4gouFP7wb0YlF9pT0kMlHx2Ic5Ji1T5yWXc/yXE CB6zyj4OXePhAqpTt66oZ9lFthFAO3Bmp+xk7rACYl3D417vMKy4pyehwE47JpshUQkjPvieGWeHBluOf3iq7foYhN4DFjFjqZr+NsroPDI= X-CM-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=d/oPyQjE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=67c7479c a=GfXQuWAYjYMZp4ahSyumlQ==:117 a=GfXQuWAYjYMZp4ahSyumlQ==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=MKtGQD3n3ToA:10 a=1oJP67jkp3AA:10 a=V4re0iGxW9MOMOjeEOgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=yPy0HX4kI4LsAlP3oO-2:22 Message-ID: <6b4256d6-be7f-43c8-be3b-c2b0921dd043@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:34:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US, es-ES, eu From: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=ekaitz@HIDDEN; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spampanel-Class: ham X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2025-03-04 18:19, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > The AGit flow: > > - clone the upstream repository > - checkout a new branch > - make a commit > - push the commit as a PR to the forge. Yes but no. It's easy, but if we are going to make any contributor do that, we are still going to need documentation and people will come and complain. Isn't the email based workflow as simple as: - clone the upstream repository - make commits - send email I would say that's even simpler (it doesn't even involve branches!). But still people seem to struggle with it. Codeberg is born from a software that intends to be a Github clone and was originally designed with that workflow in mind. So people would deduce we work using the Github workflow, and probably be frustrated when they realize we don't. I wouldn't be surprised if this is discussed as something problematic in the future. I'm not saying I dislike it (I do like it), but we have to be prepared. I don't think the email workflow was specially difficult, I think this change has been advocated for because people wanted to use the Github workflow instead (the main argument was "it's what people is used to"). I know Ludovic's proposal doesn't try to overcome that specific "please do what I'm used to because I don't want to think" problem, but we have to be aware that those who want this change to happen because of it are not going to be happy with the result. Having the PR would be better for them than what we had. That's also true. Also, now I'm thinking about it, the complexity of a-git-flow is directly pushed to any contributors, and not only people with commit access like the website being unable to merge things. So there's that, too. Cheers, Ekaitz
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2025 17:56:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 04 12:56:09 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpWUu-0004CN-VG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:56:09 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:34840) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tpWUi-0004BO-MM for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:55:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1741110935; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=8ESajxAY9hVHEKVQ7uJO8Wf/oIcVxYAHigXrBFIFCPA=; b=Qc3LhMboNFxKGKcgxoKqbHJu6nhBcze1c05/eaFmbM5t8GQFHok0wGIzxMNGNtl5kiCPEK jGyitEvKnxDoRdOgZ2+/JSDMqjDVbLzRGWBFSX74mvTRUEFFN7hIuGmFquARc+Mcs1K40Z IiILW2t7++OqYCR9sHFbACDFDf4wSBlYlrNYl0J0vphRYNJhqHosg5UTcZG00ZUCsXeqK7 nHaPRJ4GzT1FB6WE9r77KzWgcrm+sjmuzesGlwYxrMZG+gTxcNMzdgj9ckzqs1Ix2w0tLi 7IANeVNOIcqI/L3Emr/JEddI39i8W7TXJXWNIKGqrxESEb+gxvp9l/e0dKJ0kA== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id f202d27c (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 4 Mar 2025 17:55:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <875xkoaers.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87h64dzkc3.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xkoaers.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 17:55:27 +0000 Message-ID: <87h648wui8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo, > The problem I see with requiring AGit is that we=E2=80=99d be making a de= cision > based on what we understand is a potential risk on Codeberg=E2=80=99s sid= e. > > I would rather not require use of AGit until Codeberg volunteers ask us > to do so or at least express concern in relation with Guix activity on > Codeberg. But of course, this could only happen after migration. > > WDYT? > > Alternatively (or in addition to the above), perhaps I can solicit > feedback from a Codeberg volunteer during this discussion period? Talking to Codeberg sounds good. We have to do it anyway to discuss other aspects of the migration. Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2025 17:27:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 04 12:27:14 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60710 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpW2x-0002kg-1r for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:27:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tpW2o-0002jz-01 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:27:05 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tpW2e-0005X2-G3; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:26:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=vvUe2QC++AhO2PWM+6ZH0Pof3FJaVV7qnVGq8hhXwlY=; b=YQU+XrEFf5jWjqcSDCT5 BUwOuP8xabNUGPHwV07Rw32ALwNYZjg0/m3sCS6nmoLN0jx2NmJX0Auh2+fmQ+ExNPPdnFcJY1ILN s6yuvBzDE3P43ZFCPlwQCYarxxxdV94klbhC2m26Mk1ZN+MdfzYRbCBYEl0u7HkeAcC+Yx0RjN2pw 1tXHu0eljoVIRoBEwOFjDQqt0RQP6OUPNBO3itpliWqLbDDalb7J4X4XmOrwwCrUr4SiL98MS3ROn emfOA5PdpSEpIaDV1gPYXYaAQ/7aSfoaScAfaLwGOAfZpRaPcYvVcjc38ue46Q493xbp1cD9gDczs wfSt2/EfANZwmg==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87h64dzkc3.fsf@HIDDEN> (Arun Isaac's message of "Sat, 01 Mar 2025 00:05:32 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <87h64dzkc3.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 18:26:15 +0100 Message-ID: <875xkoaers.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hello, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> skribis: > The only amendment I would strongly recommend is to require the agit > workflow in order to mitigate the storage problem/risk. The problem I see with requiring AGit is that we=E2=80=99d be making a deci= sion based on what we understand is a potential risk on Codeberg=E2=80=99s side. I would rather not require use of AGit until Codeberg volunteers ask us to do so or at least express concern in relation with Guix activity on Codeberg. But of course, this could only happen after migration. WDYT? Alternatively (or in addition to the above), perhaps I can solicit feedback from a Codeberg volunteer during this discussion period? > I do want to. But I didn't because I didn't want to overload your > personal repo with too many pull requests. Perhaps we can have a pilot > period (say 30 days) when both mumi/debbugs patches and codeberg pull > requests would be accepted methods to contribute. This may help put > people's minds at ease about the transition, and give them some time to > adapt their contribution/review worklows. Yes, having a period where both methods are accepted sounds doable. The risk is that some things would go unnoticed on one side or the other, and during that period we=E2=80=99d be effectively splitting the community between =E2=80=9Cthose who prefer email=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ctho= se who prefer Codeberg=E2=80=9D, but if it=E2=80=99s limited to 30 days max, that=E2=80= =99s probably OK. What do people think? Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2025 17:20:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 04 12:20:31 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tpVwU-0002S8-CG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:20:30 -0500 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rekado@HIDDEN>) id 1tpVwM-0002La-RN for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 12:20:26 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741108779; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=eLvQXJ7O6sS8NXNT0RBz1ugGCFm6V4cq6Hq2RBUMIOONml3Ag1YpAr+Cogwa1hQ2AL8tBia8EeY3pHm5nIOvFljquJNpXA9bgX162c1j4NsDxPO+w39h5ZdZOrkLqBpfPRCi1rSoRW7SOLxpxcqZ9ECDMjWN2Tni/BSkiX5G+zw= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1741108779; h=Content-Type:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=p0uxf593+YtnwaRTwSDp43TS65EsvwNdppY9/1GTxkU=; b=RzjwvYnmN1IuOtEVkx9aUZPTErpUywtxBldvwrDtyB+ZtSjNK8KUdnkdJ66v7e2Dmcvue8dgFtzwxaG+oHx9Ce9Mzzt+UU100jVk5jNGPHd5j9e9DBjeYCiiNWPux6ZRpKlrDm/x6TIXjwX0M5NascKcXGRMQ2AhxVH86Rs/nNA= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@HIDDEN; dmarc=pass header.from=<rekado@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1741108779; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@HIDDEN; h=From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=p0uxf593+YtnwaRTwSDp43TS65EsvwNdppY9/1GTxkU=; b=SriU8h2xll37qM6xOVfWFH6BDi2C2WRHIu5X9YBjR83ooy/fY9pctRV93HuVHqVW 9sMmNSpWa26fjd2KjAECyIHk7IIr74gv9VX+j+KCZwTdh/61YbKWglo2rcFeXfOcxZm cT1br7fzUgNCucw/To7wNMNE8JwJPXSoHBmDpQ7U= Received: by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1741108776089429.0683094455842; Tue, 4 Mar 2025 09:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> To: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> (Ekaitz Zarraga's message of "Tue, 4 Mar 2025 16:26:48 +0100") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734ftdoq4.fsf@HIDDEN> <a71ac769-8bf1-43d8-80e1-145cd9de7d11@HIDDEN> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 18:19:32 +0100 Message-ID: <878qpk4st7.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN>, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN> writes: > On 2025-03-04 12:22, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: >> - The flow would be*even* more confusing than now, since >> it'd look >> like Github but require committers to use it very >> differently. > > This is a very interesting take. > I have a similar view when we mention A-Git-Flow or whatever > that is. > We would be using a tool in a very surprising way. I don't know > if > that's good, at all. > > We would be pushing that complexity only to committers, not to > ocasional contributors, which may help attracting people. But, > on the > other hand, we would force people who is already very busy (and > very > efficient with their current workflow) to discard their way to > do > things and learn another. The Github workflow is more complicated: - fork the repository on the forge website - clone your fork from the forge to your local machine - checkout a new branch - make a commit - push the commit from your local checkout to your fork on the forge - go to the forge website to open a pull request from your fork to the upstream repository The AGit flow: - clone the upstream repository - checkout a new branch - make a commit - push the commit as a PR to the forge. Am I overlooking something? -- Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spampanel-Class: ham X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN>, Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2025-03-04 12:22, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > - The flow would be*even* more confusing than now, since it'd look > like Github but require committers to use it very differently. This is a very interesting take. I have a similar view when we mention A-Git-Flow or whatever that is. We would be using a tool in a very surprising way. I don't know if that's good, at all. We would be pushing that complexity only to committers, not to ocasional contributors, which may help attracting people. But, on the other hand, we would force people who is already very busy (and very efficient with their current workflow) to discard their way to do things and learn another. I like the proposal, but at the same time, I feel very comfortable with Guix due to the fact that I can collaborate with email only (I even decided to use the same model for my projects!). Some of the things we have are very disturbing though: savannah is weird, patches being mixed with issues, debbugs is not very comfortable to use... I think that would be improved with Codeberg. I don't know if this adds anything, but there it is. Cheers, Ekaitz
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
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Hi Ludovic,
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
[...]
> However, to overcome several limitations, the project developed
> processes and tools, which can be characterized as *incidental
> complexity*:
>
> - because the Debbugs web interface is crude by today=E2=80=99s standar=
ds and
> hard to search and navigate, the project developed
> [mumi](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/mumi.git/), the web
> interface running at https://issues.guix.gnu.org;
> - to navigate bugs and patches more conveniently than what an email
> client supports, contributors were
> [encouraged](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Debbugs-U=
ser-Interfaces.html)
> to use interfaces like `debbugs.el` or `b4`;
> - sending patch series by email does not play well with Debbugs=E2=80=99
> automatic identifier assignment, so [contributors were told to send
> their =E2=80=9Ccover letter=E2=80=9D, wait for an identifier to be as=
signed, and
> then send the
> rest](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Sending-a-Patch-=
Series.html#Multiple-Patches-1);
> - to help sending and applying patch series, mumi was extended to
> provide a command line interface;
> - to build patch series submitted by email, the [QA
> service](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) has to rely on a [Patchwork
> instance](https://patches.guix-patches.cbaines.net/project/guix-patch=
es/list/)
> that is subscribed to the `guix-patches` mailing list, coupled with
> its own [parsing of incoming
> email](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dguix/data-service.git=
;a=3Dblob;f=3Dguix-data-service/branch-updated-emails.scm;h=3Daeb1570dfda72=
5864a77780d0541f26c090b0e55;hb=3Dc886685e9284da4bbed9377f70dd70da9e7ca29f);
> - the project added a commit hook to create add unique `Change-Id`
> headers in commit messages in an attempt to correlate commits in the
> repository with messages send to `guix-patches`; none of the
> existing tools takes advantage of it though, and it is up to
> contributors to manually close entries in the bug/patch tracker once
> they have been fixed/applied.
>
> Developing and maintaining this software and infrastructure is
> time-consuming. Worse, it leaves contributors largely dissatisfied for
> a variety of reasons:
I don't think maintaining the infrastructure *that would be replaced*
has been too time consuming. Sure, Mumi has had some issues and needed
some fixing, but most of what is used today:
- Savannah (git hosting)
- Debbugs (bug tracker) & Mumi
- Git configs/hooks
- Contributing documentation
rarely ever changes and has been stable, all while being generously
hosted, without limits on repository size or other criteria, on
freedom-respecting hardware and a friendly associated org (FSF/GNU),
which I assume can't be said of Codeberg (w.r.t. using free software
friendly hardware, such as using the GNU Boot bootloader). The
complexity of the flow can be partly explained by the fact that there
isn't only one flow possible, but a multitude of flows (Emacs Debbugs,
Mumi, git send-email, etc.), which is more of a strength than a defect
when it comes to the freedom of choice/flexibility for our contributors.
I see the argument that there's an HTTP API for Forgejo; that's great,
but it requires that everyone relearn another way of doing something
that already works well enough for me and others, which I'm not too
excited about. I also assume the Forgejo-related tooling, given their
young age, would not be as mature and missing features in places, and
that it would require invested time to comfortably do all that can be
done today in Gnus and Emacs Debbugs, away from the web interface, in
the environment of choice (Emacs) of perhaps a majority of the Guix
contributors.
The parts that have required the most maintenance would be, I assume, CI
(Cuirass) and QA (Guix Build Coordinator), but these components will
continue to be used in the event we migrate to Codeberg, so we wouldn't
gain much on the maintenance side, it seems.
> - the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers;
> - the tools and infrastructure in Guix have become a maze;
> - apart from the happy few using `debbugs.el` in Emacs, navigating
> open issues and patches is hard; filtering incoming messages is
> equally hard, even for those with 10+ years of experience with
> advanced email tools (Gnus, mu4e, notmuch, b4, etc.);
> - because the various parts of the development process (repository,
> issue tracking, QA automation, `etc/teams.scm`) are largely
> disconnected, even long-time contributors can hardly follow issues
> relevant to them; issues may remain open after they=E2=80=99ve been f=
ixed,
> new activity on an issue may go unnoticed, cross-references among
> issues are not visible in any of the interfaces, etc.
I believe some of the above, such as notifying everyone involved in a
ticket's discussion when replying, has been/could be tackled in the
improved GNU Debbugs rewrite that Felix has been refining and testing
[0, 1]. I think improving Debbugs for the whole of GNU (the Emacs
project actively use it still for example) would make sense and is
something I've been meaning to do, but not high in my priority list
(since it already works well enough for the most part). Hacking a small
Perl code base doesn't appear much more daunting than the modern
Go-written, web framework library heavy mastodon I assume
Gitea/Forgejo is, so I'm not sure why we wouldn't try this first
instead. I can't help but feel like we'd be throwing the baby out with
the bathwater: in my view, the current situation is not as bad as
suggested in your outlook, though I agree further automation and
simplifications would be welcome.
[0] https://codeberg.org/lechner/mumi
[1] https://patchwise.org/
> All this contributes to a [poor
> experience](https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2025/guix-user-and-contributor-s=
urvey-2024-the-results-part-3/)
> for those who choose to contribute despite the barrier to entry,
> probably discourages many to even start contributing, and adds to the
> load of committers and infrastructure maintainers.
My reading of the survey's results was that the main concern of the
community was packages' freshness and availability. Our backlog is
already larger than we can handle. Opening contributions from more
people, if that's what Codeberg would help with, wouldn't solve the real
problem of lack of eyes & hands to review and merge the contributions,
while giving us more work documenting the new workflows and their
quirks.
One serious usability quirk I can foresee is that given our current
PGP-based security design, committers would still need to push the
commits manually from their local machine so they can sign the commits
with their key, which probably defeats the streamlined and automated
niceties of the PR flow:
- The merge button in web UI would need to be disabled or documented as
prohibited (I doubt we'd even be able to disable it? or we'd need to
ensure the merge can be fast-forwarded and is already signed, which
would be a bit annoying since we'd need to not only fetch + rebase but
then visit the web interface to merge a change). It can all be
automated via the HTTP API I'm sure, but that wouldn't be much of an
improvement (if at all) over our current flow.
I suspect not being able to follow the expected way of merging things
probably further implies that:
- Issues won't be closed automatically since we can't use the merge
button.
- Both PR and issues must then be closed manually, which is what we
currently have
- The flow would be *even* more confusing than now, since it'd look
like Github but require committers to use it very differently.
Which would again need more custom tools/scripts as a workaround.
[...]
> Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers would
> migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
>
> For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
> acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. On
> that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become
> https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git. A commit would reflect that by
> updating:
I'd like to suggest extending the 'trial' period to something much
longer, like a year or so, to make sure our parachute is properly
installed before jumping the cliff :-). Letting both systems co-exist
and compete for merit seems a good trial, and we could also extract
useful data (such as how many contributions were merged on one or the
other, etc.). It'd be a bit annoying to keep an eye at two places for
some time, but at least we wouldn't commit to something that may not
scale/match our peculiar requirements as well as we expected.
After such trial we could then vote on whether we want to fully migrate
to Codeberg, when all regular contributors would have gotten a chance to
try the new tools and find a flow that works for them, hopefully. With
this insurance in place, I'd be happy to experiment with Codeberg and
see whether it truly improves things.
Thank you for proposing this GCD!
--=20
Maxim
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Mon, 3 Mar 2025 02:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <m11pvezhsx.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <m11pvezhsx.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2025 08:54:23 +0100 Message-ID: <m1y0xmy2fk.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> writes: > Overall, I am very favorable to moving to a forge because of point 1. I > don't see anything objectively wrong or bad about the current e-mail > workflow, but for an occasional (or new) contributor its hard to become > fluent with it. In contrast, forges are becoming standard even for many > non-coders. One more point that I forgot: moving to a forge could be even more beneficial for increasing the number of people reviewing patches. For submitting a patch, the current workflow is unusual but not so complicated. For reviewing, I don't even know how to do it, in particular how to apply and test patches from an e-mail message in a sufficiently automated way. In contrast, on a forge, I could well imaging participating in reviewing patches for ecosystems I am familiar with. Cheers, Konrad.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN>
To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2025 08:37:02 +0100
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Hi everyone,
A few comments which I will prefix with a summary of my own perspective:
1. I am an occasional contributor to Guix, contributing mainly packages
that I make for my own needs and wish to share.
2. I am a voting member of Codeberg e.V., because I believe that
Codeberg and its For=C4=9Dejo project are a step in the right direction,
which I see as transitioning forges from platforms to services
that don't "own" projects, nor user accounts.
Overall, I am very favorable to moving to a forge because of point 1. I
don't see anything objectively wrong or bad about the current e-mail
workflow, but for an occasional (or new) contributor its hard to become
fluent with it. In contrast, forges are becoming standard even for many
non-coders.
I won't comment on topics I am ignorant about, in particular the storage
debate. Nor much on other points that I think can be solved in
collaboration with the Codeberg team, e.g. the LibreJS issues.
That leaves the problem of becoming dependent on a platform, which
implies that all contributors must create an account and accepts terms
of services, and that, at least in theory, the platform owners can do
harm to the project.
As I said above, the long-term goal should, in my opinion, be forges as
services, much like e-mail servers. Projects bring their own domain,
terms of services, etc., and pay a service provider for keeping the
servers running, retaining the option of switching service providers. We
don't have this possibility right now, but the federation approach of
For=C4=9Dejo makes it look reachable in a small-integer number of years.
For me, moving to Codeberg is a stepping stone towards this goal. It
looks like Guix would be their larges project, meaning that we would
have a lot of influence on how Codeberg and For=C4=9Dejo will evolve towards
serving projects like ours. I see that as an opportunity.
As for the current terms of services, I have personally no issues with
them. Any set of written rules leaves a potential for abuse, so I am not
a fan of overinterpreting written rules. I'd rather look at how the
rules are applied, and from that perspective, I am not aware of any
project having had issues with Codeberg.org.
Cheers,
Konrad.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87jz97gktu.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=
=?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sun, 02 Mar 2025 22:54:21 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5a3l2wd.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87jz97gktu.fsf_-_@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2025 00:35:20 +0100
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi Tomas,
>
> Thanks for reading the proposal. I pushed a fix for the typos you
> reported.
I am pretty sure it should have not been pushed to the main branch, but
to wip-codeberg (or something similar). My understanding of GCD-001 and
the README is that main is for approved documents only.
> [..]
>> How do pull request templates work together with AGit flow
>
> Good question, I don=E2=80=99t know, we=E2=80=99ll need to check.
>
>> that (as far as I understand it) is being considered to be mandatory?
>
> That=E2=80=99s not how I see it; I think suggesting it is an option (but =
also
> from because it provides an interface that some may prefer), but making
> it mandatory now doesn=E2=80=99t seem justified to me.
Agree.
> [..]
>>> - Within **30 days** after acceptance of this GCD, mailing list
>>> administrators will set up the `bug-guix` and `guix-patches` mailing
>>> lists in =E2=80=9CEmergency Moderation=E2=80=9D mode in the Mailman
>>> interface=E2=80=94meaning that messages will not get through anymor=
e.
>>
>> This contradicts GCD 001 no? The 001 requires the GCD to be sent as
>> patch to guix-patches@HIDDEN How will this be handled?
>
> I think we would amend GCD 001 to change references to the email
> workflow with references to the Codeberg-based workflow. We should
> probably spell it out here in an extra bullet, along these lines:
>
> - Once the guix-consensus-document.git repository has been moved to
> Codeberg, authorized people will apply [the
> patch](https://issues.guix.gnu.org/XXX) amending GCD=C2=A0001 to refe=
r to
> the Codeberg-based workflow.
>
> And so we=E2=80=99d send the patch in question beforehand so everyone can=
see
> how the GCD is amended.
>
> WDYT?
Yes, that seems good process wise.
I am not really looking forward to reading the debate (given the volume)
in the linear format in the Codeberg's issue tracker (no threading, no
dormant marks, ...), and I am not happy about limiting people able to
comment on GCD proposal to holders for Codeberg account, but both are in
the spirit of this (002) proposal, so it makes sense.
(Hypothetical funny situation would be a GCD about moving *off* Codeberg
due to people having troubles creating account, on which people it is
about would not be able to comment, due to not having an account. Yes,
yes, just joking.)
>
>> On separate note, there are other projects (well, I know just of
>> Shepherd, are there others?) than Guix using bug-guix and guix-patches,
>> so maybe this GCD should go a bit into how that will be handled.
>
> Maybe with by extending the bullet above:
>
> [=E2=80=A6] meaning that messages will not get through anymore.
> Other projects that were using bug-guix and guix-patches (the
> Shepherd, Cuirass, etc.) must have set up their own bug-reporting
> and patch-tracking tools by then.
Sounds good.
> [..]
>>> [fj.el](https://codeberg.org/martianh/fj.el/) is an Emacs interface
>>> similar to `mastodon.el` that lets you view and comment on issues and
>>> pull requests, list repositories, view notifications, and so on.
>>
>> One thing it does not support (based on the README) is the ability to do
>> an actual code review, which is a bummer.
>
> Concretely, it does not let you comment line-by-line so far, which is
> what you would do in the web interface.
Does it at least let you see line-by-line comments from other people?
Sorry for constant questions, but as you might have guessed from the
other thread, I do not have Codeberg account to try it myself.
> [..]
>> Can anyone update other people's pull requests, the way I can
>> currently sent n+1 version of a patch started by someone else?
>
> If I=E2=80=99m not mistaken, the person who creates the pull request deci=
des
> whether they allow others to update it. (As a reviewer and =E2=80=9Cowne=
r=E2=80=9D,
> I=E2=80=99ve definitely updated other people=E2=80=99s pull requests.)
Can this be enforced on repository level? So that we could mandate that
all pull requests are editable by anyone, to match how the debbugs work
currently?
>
>>> Note that since Guix requires signed commits by people listed in
>>> `.guix-authorizations`, we will *not* be able to click the =E2=80=9CMer=
ge=E2=80=9D
>>> button nor to enable auto-merge on build success.
>>
>>>From the debate I gathered that the merge button can be completely
>> disabled on the Website, I would suggest to put in here that we will do
>> that (to prevent mistakes).
>
> Yes, I added a sentence to that effect and pushed it; let me know if
> anything more should be done in your view.
Nothing more required, the addition looks good.
>
>>> First, everyone will have to create an account and accept [Codeberg=E2=
=80=99s
>>> Terms of
>>> Use](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
>>> before they can contribute, which can be seen as a step back compared to
>>> the email-based workflow.
>>
>> Something to note here is that "contribute" is used in very wide sense.
>> It contains even just reporting a bug. We will likely lose *some* bug
>> reports because people will not be willing to jump through the hoops.
>
> That is true, but the same can be said of the current workflow.
People having a working email are a strict superset of people having
Codeberg account, by definition. ^_^
Tomas
=2D-=20
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
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From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <878qpnf56n.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=
=?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:17:36 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87jz97l5q9.fsf@HIDDEN>
<878qpnf56n.fsf_-_@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2025 00:15:45 +0100
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Thank you for addressing the points one by one. Few reactions below, I
have omitted those where I have nothing more to say.
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> skribis:
>
>>> (https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
>
>> I went through the Terms of Use and picked few points I considers
>> problematic and/or note worthy.
>
> As mentioned in my initial reply=C2=B9, this shouldn=E2=80=99t be frame a=
s us-vs-them
> (let alone harsh language), but rather as:
>
> 1. Is it a blocker?
Probably not for the project. ^_^ Though for me personally the =C2=A7 3 (4)
is a blocker. I cannot in good faith agree to check the website every
three months, because I know I will not be doing that. I have already
failed at it once and I know it would happen again.
> 2. If not, how can we work with Codeberg e.V. on that once we=E2=80=99ve
> switched to Codeberg.
>
>
>> =C2=A7 2 (1) 4. forces us to rewrite repository history in case of
>> compromise,
>
> I definitely don=E2=80=99t read it that way: it=E2=80=99s not about =E2=
=80=9Ccompromised=E2=80=9D code
> as in =E2=80=9CCVE in guix-daemon=E2=80=9D, and it=E2=80=99s not about ge=
nuine bugs either.
Hm I probably was not clear enough. I simply do not know what Guix
policy here is, so I just wanted to bring this up.
If some committer is compromised, and malicious commit gets pushed
upstream, what will Guix do? Revert the commit? Or rewrite the history
and remove it completely?
If latter, this point is moot and you can stop reading.
If former, I am not sure that would comply with the ToU.
>
>> =C2=A7 2 (5), especially the "its reputation" part, can easily lead to
>> loosing Codeberg account, and therefore ability to contribute to Guix,
>> over, for example, Mastodon toot complaining that Codeberg it down
>> again. After all, that could very well be considered "Action intended
>> to damage the [Codeberg's] reputation".
>
> Again that=E2=80=99s a bit of a stretch, but more importantly it=E2=80=99=
s framed as if
> (1) we were dealing with a hostile adversary, and (2) we were customers
> not owing respect to the volunteers making it work.
>
> Let=E2=80=99s be very clear: that=E2=80=99s not the spirit of this propos=
al. We=E2=80=99ll be
> using a service set up by other volunteers and we=E2=80=99ll be joining f=
orces
> in some way=E2=80=94financially or otherwise. There=E2=80=99s going to b=
e downtimes and
> problems, but we=E2=80=99re going to deal with them together.
I agree it might be a stretch, but at the same time I assume they had
*some* reason to put a fairly specific point like this into the ToU.
>
>> =C2=A7 3 (4) is pretty WTF. They could at least send an email. I plan =
to
>> keep working from the Emacs, so I am pretty sure I will not check the
>> dashboard for announcement messages regarding ToU changes every three
>> months.
>
> I agree it=E2=80=99s not great, but it=E2=80=99s typically the kind of th=
ing to discuss
> with them, once we=E2=80=99ve moved; perhaps sending email would be accep=
table
> for them.
Let us hope.
>
> The remaining paragraphs are harsh if not hostile (please avoid that
> tone in the future) and hopefully covered by the rest of that reply.
Yes, I apologize for that. I just copy&pasted my original message
written in a bit heated state of mind. I should have adjusted the
language. Sorry.
Tomas
=2D-=20
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87jz97l5q9.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 02
Mar 2025 18:09:18 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87jz97l5q9.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:17:36 +0100
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Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> skribis:
>> (https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
> I went through the Terms of Use and picked few points I considers
> problematic and/or note worthy.
As mentioned in my initial reply=C2=B9, this shouldn=E2=80=99t be frame as =
us-vs-them
(let alone harsh language), but rather as:
1. Is it a blocker?
2. If not, how can we work with Codeberg e.V. on that once we=E2=80=99ve
switched to Codeberg.
Having now read them, I personally find the ToU reasonable.
=C2=B9 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00030.html
> =C2=A7 2 (1) 3. looks pretty annoying for occasional contributors.
That=E2=80=99s reasonable: it=E2=80=99s a non-profit, they have to make spa=
ce once in a
while, but that=E2=80=99s okay: Git is distributed, people have a local cop=
y.
> =C2=A7 2 (1) 4. forces us to rewrite repository history in case of
> compromise,
I definitely don=E2=80=99t read it that way: it=E2=80=99s not about =E2=80=
=9Ccompromised=E2=80=9D code
as in =E2=80=9CCVE in guix-daemon=E2=80=9D, and it=E2=80=99s not about genu=
ine bugs either.
> =C2=A7 2 (4) is annoying for people not familiar with German law
This is quite theoretical (whereas takedown notices in the US on GitHub
and the likes are something very tangible.)
> =C2=A7 2 (5), especially the "its reputation" part, can easily lead to
> loosing Codeberg account, and therefore ability to contribute to Guix,
> over, for example, Mastodon toot complaining that Codeberg it down
> again. After all, that could very well be considered "Action intended
> to damage the [Codeberg's] reputation".
Again that=E2=80=99s a bit of a stretch, but more importantly it=E2=80=99s =
framed as if
(1) we were dealing with a hostile adversary, and (2) we were customers
not owing respect to the volunteers making it work.
Let=E2=80=99s be very clear: that=E2=80=99s not the spirit of this proposal=
. We=E2=80=99ll be
using a service set up by other volunteers and we=E2=80=99ll be joining for=
ces
in some way=E2=80=94financially or otherwise. There=E2=80=99s going to be =
downtimes and
problems, but we=E2=80=99re going to deal with them together.
> =C2=A7 3 (4) is pretty WTF. They could at least send an email. I plan to
> keep working from the Emacs, so I am pretty sure I will not check the
> dashboard for announcement messages regarding ToU changes every three
> months.
I agree it=E2=80=99s not great, but it=E2=80=99s typically the kind of thin=
g to discuss
with them, once we=E2=80=99ve moved; perhaps sending email would be accepta=
ble
for them.
> =C2=A7 4 (4) is the typical "we can nuke your account at any time for any
> reason". Nice.
Yes, that makes sense to me.
The remaining paragraphs are harsh if not hostile (please avoid that
tone in the future) and hopefully covered by the rest of that reply.
Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87a5a3l2wd.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 02
Mar 2025 19:10:26 +0100")
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Hi Tomas,
Thanks for reading the proposal. I pushed a fix for the typos you
reported.
Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> skribis:
>> Forgejo has several features to support collaboration among a large
>> number of people and on a large code base, including
>> [teams](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#tea=
ms)
>> and [issue and pull request
>> templates](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/issue-pull-request-templ=
ates/).
>
> How do pull request templates work together with AGit flow
Good question, I don=E2=80=99t know, we=E2=80=99ll need to check.
> that (as far as I understand it) is being considered to be mandatory?
That=E2=80=99s not how I see it; I think suggesting it is an option (but al=
so
from because it provides an interface that some may prefer), but making
it mandatory now doesn=E2=80=99t seem justified to me.
>> To ease this migration and possibly future migration, we may add a new
>> `git.guix.gnu.org` DNS entry with HTTP redirects to
>> `git.savannah.gnu.org` (before migration) and `codeberg.org` (after
>> migration); a [patch](https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76296) implementing
>> this has been submitted. The `%default-channel-url` variable would
>> refer to `https://git.guix.gnu.org/guix.git`.
>
> The https://git.guix.gnu.org/guix.git seems like a good idea regardless
> of whether this GCD is accepted or not. It would allow us to switch the
> hosting on moments notice in case the underlying infrastructure goes
> down.
Yes, I think so too.
>> - Within **30 days** after acceptance of this GCD, mailing list
>> administrators will set up the `bug-guix` and `guix-patches` mailing
>> lists in =E2=80=9CEmergency Moderation=E2=80=9D mode in the Mailman
>> interface=E2=80=94meaning that messages will not get through anymore.
>
> This contradicts GCD 001 no? The 001 requires the GCD to be sent as
> patch to guix-patches@HIDDEN How will this be handled?
I think we would amend GCD 001 to change references to the email
workflow with references to the Codeberg-based workflow. We should
probably spell it out here in an extra bullet, along these lines:
- Once the guix-consensus-document.git repository has been moved to
Codeberg, authorized people will apply [the
patch](https://issues.guix.gnu.org/XXX) amending GCD=C2=A0001 to refer =
to
the Codeberg-based workflow.
And so we=E2=80=99d send the patch in question beforehand so everyone can s=
ee
how the GCD is amended.
WDYT?
> On separate note, there are other projects (well, I know just of
> Shepherd, are there others?) than Guix using bug-guix and guix-patches,
> so maybe this GCD should go a bit into how that will be handled.
Maybe with by extending the bullet above:
[=E2=80=A6] meaning that messages will not get through anymore.
Other projects that were using bug-guix and guix-patches (the
Shepherd, Cuirass, etc.) must have set up their own bug-reporting
and patch-tracking tools by then.
In practice I believe Shepherd is the only one not under the Guix
project at Savannah that will have to do something special[*]; the other
projects will be able to use the Codeberg tools.
[*] I=E2=80=99d like to migrate Shepherd to Codeberg as well soon, under it=
s own
organization.
>> Everything that can be done through Forgejo=E2=80=99s web interface can =
be done
>> *via* its [HTTP
>> interface](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/api-usage/).
>
> This is not true.
I was thinking about this:
https://codeberg.org/api/swagger#/
> There is no API for getting the Terms of Use. Changes in those are
> announced only as a banner on the website (as far as I can tell).
Yes; I saw what you (re)wrote on this topic and I plan to reply
separately.
>> [fj.el](https://codeberg.org/martianh/fj.el/) is an Emacs interface
>> similar to `mastodon.el` that lets you view and comment on issues and
>> pull requests, list repositories, view notifications, and so on.
>
> One thing it does not support (based on the README) is the ability to do
> an actual code review, which is a bummer.
Concretely, it does not let you comment line-by-line so far, which is
what you would do in the web interface.
Of course you can still use =E2=80=98fj.el=E2=80=99 to send comments about =
changes
(that=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99ve been doing with those at
<https://codeberg.org/civodul/guix/pulls>), but for more complex code
reviews, one may have to resort to the web interface to pinpoint
specific issues in the code.
I agree that it=E2=80=99s a bummer, but I find that the overall benefit sti=
ll
outweighs this annoyance (and it=E2=80=99s an annoyance for some of us but =
not
for everyone out there).
>> git push origin HEAD:refs/for/main \
>> -o topic=3D"update-hello" \
>> -o title=3D"gnu: hello: Update to 42." \
>> -o description=3D'This updates the `hello` package."
>> ```
>
> Does this still require a Codeberg account?
Yes.
> Can anyone update other people's pull requests, the way I can
> currently sent n+1 version of a patch started by someone else?
If I=E2=80=99m not mistaken, the person who creates the pull request decides
whether they allow others to update it. (As a reviewer and =E2=80=9Cowner=
=E2=80=9D,
I=E2=80=99ve definitely updated other people=E2=80=99s pull requests.)
>> Note that since Guix requires signed commits by people listed in
>> `.guix-authorizations`, we will *not* be able to click the =E2=80=9CMerg=
e=E2=80=9D
>> button nor to enable auto-merge on build success.
>
>>From the debate I gathered that the merge button can be completely
> disabled on the Website, I would suggest to put in here that we will do
> that (to prevent mistakes).
Yes, I added a sentence to that effect and pushed it; let me know if
anything more should be done in your view.
>> First, everyone will have to create an account and accept [Codeberg=E2=
=80=99s
>> Terms of
>> Use](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
>> before they can contribute, which can be seen as a step back compared to
>> the email-based workflow.
>
> Something to note here is that "contribute" is used in very wide sense.
> It contains even just reporting a bug. We will likely lose *some* bug
> reports because people will not be willing to jump through the hoops.
That is true, but the same can be said of the current workflow.
> Would it be possible to have a bot that would still allow at least to
> report bugs via email?
I imagine this is technically feasible, but the problem is that setting
up bidirectional communication (so developers can ask questions to
reporters) is probably out of reach; in that case it would lose its
interest.
In practice, if someone sends a bug to guix-devel, we won=E2=80=99t ignore =
it,
but I think it=E2=80=99s in the project=E2=80=99s interest to direct bug re=
ports to one
channel.
Thanks for your thorough review and insightful comments!
Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2025 18:56:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 02 13:56:28 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tooUF-0007vk-MY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 13:56:28 -0500 Received: from lab.riabenko.com ([185.143.146.30]:36872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <roman@HIDDEN>) id 1tooUB-0007uz-Vr for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 13:56:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=riabenko.com; s=selector; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References: In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject: Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=vXkibCuDDRiuwowOqRLC/fv5eys84hHO/SM8PQFVA9g=; b=X6CbdJFrGRgb8cvGSgXlUU5gQC w6aor4p1GtkEkogtMz6Ui36ao2vUYC4+Sva3ZO5/EJLFmI9/n8oYeNtNS8U2BK27OoT2N1dBzO62e lioDFLEnLeNePQu4BQUUSkus6qY+nXCHueKfEGUNrDA5rYRcRf3a5UCPwUhQlodjQljo/QoBve6cN wlM3SIhLNdo6gSGN55w8DoOx7YKkRsM+rD5rgnoDAA7P7g90sVJpm9WdJuBcvZGL6u8+jb6YzKmpD j5Epj82HB6sLpmf4WPgidzVhvSmQspV4CeZQGzNQ3Wn0/BLfHD+h0bcHkFUHeXbi3xNRlZiknvTzE SLMHxIgw==; Received: from librecmc.lan ([192.168.10.1] helo=localhost) by lab.riabenko.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.98) (envelope-from <roman@HIDDEN>) id 1tooU6-0000000011d-23PV; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 20:56:18 +0200 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2025 20:56:08 +0200 From: Roman Riabenko <roman@HIDDEN> To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg: LibreJS blocks JavaScript Message-Id: <20250302205608.c3cbaae445217285e3154dc4@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87frjvl5bi.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frjvl5bi.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA256"; boundary="Signature=_Sun__2_Mar_2025_20_56_08_+0200_eXLcN=Ulupx66pKS" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) --Signature=_Sun__2_Mar_2025_20_56_08_+0200_eXLcN=Ulupx66pKS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:18:09 +0100 Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> wrote: > I have opened the https://codeberg.org in a browser with the LibreJS > extension installed, and two scripts are blocked due to "External script > with no known license": >=20 > https://codeberg.org/assets/js/webcomponents.js > https://codeberg.org/assets/js/index.js >=20 > They indeed do not seem to contain any kind of license notice. >=20 > Since Forgejo is Free software, I assume it is just a matter of some > mark missing somewhere. I am not sure on who this is to fix, whether > Codeberg (Forgejo?) or LibreJS, but I think it would be preferable if > site hosting our repository was not blocked by GNU LibreJS. Codeberg developers expressed willingness to resolve this issue, but it looks like they cannot decide on the approach. See this issue for details: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/64 The issue is also tracked upstream: * in Gitea: https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/13393 * in Forgejo: https://codeberg.org/forgejo/forgejo/issues/1654 Meanwhile, another effort is to have the currently deployed source code automatically disclosed, so that users could whitelist the website manually. See: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/1416 FSF associate members may also find this forum discussion relevant: https://forum.members.fsf.org/t/what-is-the-last-update-on-gnu-forge-projec= t/5337?u=3Driabenko Roman --Signature=_Sun__2_Mar_2025_20_56_08_+0200_eXLcN=Ulupx66pKS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEbyuIUwJNVUrtp3hK60bLvjKDmmkFAmfEqckACgkQ60bLvjKD mmkRcBAAlzkbGTBDMWG+H8OdwByQ0fsnE0z2I4hubH45TkkAVCGZbWlCatBRWKIi 3jbxjRtkSCP7EZ+iIVWV3NSqzOkyzrM8aSeUh04M/6hzz+w7tUB6pXthlQQ2qZow vv5U+VZKi5TdBgAHCSQcBVfqKasAARRE+I88pzCxooMrmuihX+ZO/q+vUhYHZSWy P8yKr/Lb6IVDPxsjbJh5VAVLcPjHFoy1cZ+vS2MBodXxwCKl8ZVjqv4Pd/QyWZiJ mvYLbwaQhObxJHFUa4XkfwXzGItnngYgA7l8NF7dsSRwG1k11LHyOUDvBOU4ifTe EhMvoHTvhFhVOYyR5H9WNUvTl2+P9oswER9YNihAahlLCVZYaZp+Ov2MLcLy1m9U qFrn2Le6OTCgN6zLvTI/j5sNk5MObhxAtJIhv0f+NaBtwG7gERwTgGqRrOpHJrPm cfxFUTg0/iZ2llDusJDytKcpNbMVI0jgaB6hIPU62C92HDO/yryRSasFR+bI2W4E bN8OHTEniMecMG2XW6bc33jb8TTBXICbmNXsntqv4SQM/vIjf5uvmaUfL1Wwhs+g vzb0CPd1oWHxo4uhE3dFw6ImlLlg8BGIICKdLJTHncGtHH+KCpkXwZbk5qICNDwp tfOv1+Kg/WUOmeK2dnTDkAv8fNSFjpjcQ+OqCBXLAeRbRg6qKHM= =cqfI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Sun__2_Mar_2025_20_56_08_+0200_eXLcN=Ulupx66pKS--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Sun, 2 Mar 2025 13:36:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2025 13:36:31 -0500 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Message-ID: <Z8SlL2ALMZsDmdyL@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5a3l2wd.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87a5a3l2wd.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sun, Mar 02, 2025 at 07:10:26PM +0100, Tomas Volf wrote: > > Developing and maintaining this software and infrastructure is > > time-consuming. Worse, it leaves contributors largely dissatisfied for > > a variety of reasons: > > > > - the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers; > > If the AGit flow will be mandatory, new process will also be unfamiliar. > Just saying. Yeah, I don't think we should require non-standard Git tooling. Especially if the reason is a "storage problem" that doesn't seem to exist with any other Git hosting service, and maybe doesn't for Codeberg either. I think we have gotten ahead of ourselves talking about the hypothetical "storage problem".
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22?=
=?utf-8?Q?'s?= message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:20:34 +0100")
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 19:10:26 +0100
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<#secure method=3Dpgpmime mode=3Dsign>
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hello Guix!
>
> This is the formal submission of =E2=80=9CMigrating repositories, issues,=
and
> patches to Codeberg=E2=80=9D (GCD 002), a preliminary draft of which I po=
sted
> before the Guix Days=E2=81=B0.
>
> In accordance with the GCD Process, discussion will end on April 23rd at
> the latest.
>
> I would like to remind everyone that you can try out Codeberg either by
> contributing to one of the Guix-Science repositories=C2=B9, or by reviewi=
ng
> or making a pull request for a trivial packaging change (and nothing
> more!) in my Guix clone at Codeberg:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00313.html
>
> Please do try it especially if you feel reluctant or wonder what the
> workflow would be like.
>
> Ludo=E2=80=99.
>
> =E2=81=B0 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-01/msg00218.=
html
> =C2=B9 https://codeberg.org/guix-science
>
> title: Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
> id: 002
> status: submitted
> discussion: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/<number assigned by issue tracker>
> authors: Ludovic Court=C3=A8s
> sponsors: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice, Ricardo Wurmus
> date-submitted: 2025-02-23
> date: 2025-02-23
> SPDX-License-Identifier: CC-BY-SA-4.0 OR GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later
> ---
>
> # Summary
>
> The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several challenges:
> difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and
> labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation. All these lead
> to an experience that contributors often find frustrating and hinders
> quality assurance efforts. We propose to address these limitations by
> migrating repositories, issue tracking, and patch tracking to Codeberg,
> a =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D forge hosted by a non-profit.
>
> # Motivation
>
> To keep track of bug reports and patches, Guix historically chose tools
> that were *simple* in their design:
>
> - bug reports and patches can be sent by plain email, without having
> to create an account or even subscribe to a mailing list;
> - discussion and patch review happen naturally by email, without
> requiring special tools;
> - the Debbugs instance at https://bugs.gnu.org keeps track of bug
> reports and patches by assigning them an identifier and creating a
> mailing list specifically for each bug or patch.
>
> However, to overcome several limitations, the project developed
> processes and tools, which can be characterized as *incidental
> complexity*:
>
> - because the Debbugs web interface is crude by today=E2=80=99s standar=
ds and
> hard to search and navigate, the project developed
> [mumi](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/mumi.git/), the web
> interface running at https://issues.guix.gnu.org;
> - to navigate bugs and patches more conveniently than what an email
> client supports, contributors were
> [encouraged](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Debbugs-U=
ser-Interfaces.html)
> to use interfaces like `debbugs.el` or `b4`;
> - sending patch series by email does not play well with Debbugs=E2=80=99
> automatic identifier assignment, so [contributors were told to send
> their =E2=80=9Ccover letter=E2=80=9D, wait for an identifier to be as=
signed, and
> then send the
> rest](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Sending-a-Patch-=
Series.html#Multiple-Patches-1);
> - to help sending and applying patch series, mumi was extended to
> provide a command line interface;
> - to build patch series submitted by email, the [QA
> service](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) has to rely on a [Patchwork
> instance](https://patches.guix-patches.cbaines.net/project/guix-patch=
es/list/)
> that is subscribed to the `guix-patches` mailing list, coupled with
> its own [parsing of incoming
> email](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dguix/data-service.git=
;a=3Dblob;f=3Dguix-data-service/branch-updated-emails.scm;h=3Daeb1570dfda72=
5864a77780d0541f26c090b0e55;hb=3Dc886685e9284da4bbed9377f70dd70da9e7ca29f);
> - the project added a commit hook to create add unique `Change-Id`
Possible typo in "create add"? :)
> headers in commit messages in an attempt to correlate commits in the
> repository with messages send to `guix-patches`; none of the
> existing tools takes advantage of it though, and it is up to
> contributors to manually close entries in the bug/patch tracker once
> they have been fixed/applied.
This seems reasonably simple to do, if this GCD does not pass, I will
take a stab at that.
>
> Developing and maintaining this software and infrastructure is
> time-consuming. Worse, it leaves contributors largely dissatisfied for
> a variety of reasons:
>
> - the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers;
If the AGit flow will be mandatory, new process will also be unfamiliar.
Just saying.
> - the tools and infrastructure in Guix have become a maze;
> - apart from the happy few using `debbugs.el` in Emacs, navigating
> open issues and patches is hard; filtering incoming messages is
> equally hard, even for those with 10+ years of experience with
> advanced email tools (Gnus, mu4e, notmuch, b4, etc.);
> - because the various parts of the development process (repository,
> issue tracking, QA automation, `etc/teams.scm`) are largely
> disconnected, even long-time contributors can hardly follow issues
> relevant to them; issues may remain open after they=E2=80=99ve been f=
ixed,
> new activity on an issue may go unnoticed, cross-references among
> issues are not visible in any of the interfaces, etc.
>
> All this contributes to a [poor
> experience](https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2025/guix-user-and-contributor-s=
urvey-2024-the-results-part-3/)
> for those who choose to contribute despite the barrier to entry,
> probably discourages many to even start contributing, and adds to the
> load of committers and infrastructure maintainers.
>
> # Detailed Design
>
> This section explains the chosen solution among the available options,
> the scope of the proposed migration, a migration path, and an outlook on
> automation.
>
> ## Choice of a Forge
>
> We set out to choose a =E2=80=9Cmodern forge=E2=80=9D that supports a pul=
l-request style
> workflow and provides good integration between the repository, the issue
> tracker, and the merge request tracker. Such a system is necessarily
> more *complex* at first glance than the email-based tools we have but
> (1)=C2=A0the increase in complexity is reasonable once we consider the
> incidental complexity of the existing services, as mentioned above, and
> (2)=C2=A0we think the added usage benefits outweigh this increase in
> complexity.
>
> The software behind the forge has to be free software that is
> *plausibly* self-hosted on Guix System=E2=80=94this probably rules out Gi=
tLab
> Community Edition and makes [Forgejo](https://forgejo.org/) the main
> contender.
>
> [SourceHut](https://sourcehut.org/), the other interesting option, does
> not offer the same convenience when it comes to dealing with patches and
> runs the risk of reproducing onboarding and integration issues
> surrounding an email-based workflow and =E2=80=9Cread-only=E2=80=9D web i=
nterface that
> Guix is already experiencing.
>
> Forgejo has several features to support collaboration among a large
> number of people and on a large code base, including
> [teams](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#team=
s)
> and [issue and pull request
> templates](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/issue-pull-request-templa=
tes/).
How do pull request templates work together with AGit flow that (as far
as I understand it) is being considered to be mandatory?
> Support for
> [federation](https://forgejo.org/2023-01-10-answering-forgejo-federation-=
questions/)
> is also under development and is a promising way to avoid
> centralization.
>
> Instead of self-hosting, this GCD suggests using the Forgejo instance on
> codeberg.org, run by the [Codeberg e.V.](https://codeberg.org/about)
> non-profit, registered in Germany. The non-profit has a good track
> record of running codeberg.org with minimal downtime, is [committed to
> supporting free software
> development](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/en/bylaws.=
md#preamble),
> [transparent](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org), and has governance set
> up to achieve its mission.
>
> The Guix-Science umbrella project [has been using Codeberg for several
> months
> now](https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2025/01/join-the-guix-science-community/),
> which has allowed us to gain confidence in its suitability for a project
> like Guix.
>
> ## Rights and Privileges
>
> Migration should preserve rights and privileges regarding access to the
> repositories. To that end, we propose the following rules:
>
> - Committers to several of the repositories listed above and [Savannah
Maybe "listed below" instead?
> =E2=80=9Cgroup admins=E2=80=9D](https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gui=
x) can request
> membership in the [=E2=80=9COwners=E2=80=9D
> team](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#te=
ams)
> of the [Guix *organization*](https://codeberg.org/guix). As of this
> writing, only three people are members.
> - Anyone listed the `.guix-authorizations` file of Guix can request
> membership of the https://codeberg.org/guix/guix once it is created.
> - Committers to one of the other repositories can request membership
> of that repository.
>
> In the future, we should extend the [=E2=80=9CCommit
> Rights=E2=80=9D](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Commit-Ac=
cess.html)
> section of the manual to clarify the distinction between being a member
> of the organization and being a member of a specific repository, in a
> specific team.
>
> ## Repository Migration Path
>
> The Guix project at Savannah contains the following repositories:
>
> - [Guix itself](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git);
> - [the bootstrappable.org web
> site](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/bootstrappable.git);
> - [the DHCP client in
> Guile](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/dhcp.git) (forgotten
> 2015 Google Summer of Code project);
> - [Guile bindings to
> GNUnet](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/gnunet.git) (forgotten
> 2015 Google Summer of Code project);
> - [Guix artwork and web
> site](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-artwork.git);
> - [Cuirass](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-cuirass.git);
> - [=E2=80=9Cmaintenance=E2=80=9D
> repository](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/maintenance.git)
> (includes Guix System infrastructure configuration, talks, and other
> documents);
> - [scripts for videos presenting
> Guix](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/videos.git);
> - [Guix Data
> Service](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/data-service.git);
> - [Emacs-Guix](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/emacs-guix.git);
> - [Guix Build
> Coordinator](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/build-coordinator.=
git);
> - [nar-herder](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/nar-herder.git);
> - [QA
> Frontpage](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/qa-frontpage.git);
> - [mumi](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/mumi.git);
> - [Guix Consensus
> Documents](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-consensus-docum=
ents.git).
>
> Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers would
> migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
>
> For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
> acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. On
> that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become
> https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git. A commit would reflect that by
> updating:
>
> 1. the `url` field in `.guix-channel`;
> 2. the `%default-channel-url` variable in `(guix channels)`;
> 3. any other reference to the URL that may appear in the repository,
> in particular in the manual.
>
> To ease this migration and possibly future migration, we may add a new
> `git.guix.gnu.org` DNS entry with HTTP redirects to
> `git.savannah.gnu.org` (before migration) and `codeberg.org` (after
> migration); a [patch](https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76296) implementing
> this has been submitted. The `%default-channel-url` variable would
> refer to `https://git.guix.gnu.org/guix.git`.
The https://git.guix.gnu.org/guix.git seems like a good idea regardless
of whether this GCD is accepted or not. It would allow us to switch the
hosting on moments notice in case the underlying infrastructure goes
down.
>
> Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the
> migration. See [this entry in
> Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/commit/fd1b2=
dacd8d37c9d1939f9dc5a5b74256171ccbd)
> for an example.
>
> The Savannah `guix.git` repository would become a mirror of the one at
> Codeberg, with a script periodically updating it for **at least one
> year** after the switch, as a way to ease migration to the new
> repository for users. Other repositories would be deleted from Savannah
> once migrated, to avoid confusion.
>
> ## Issue Tracker Migration Path
>
> Importing all the issues and patches from Debbugs/mumi into Codeberg
> would be impractical: it would require the development of specific
> tools, would be a lossy process due to the fundamental mismatch between
> plain text email threads and Forgejo issues and pull requests, and would
> bring little in return.
>
> Our proposal is the following:
>
> - https://issues.guix.gnu.org will remain up and running for at least
> **two years** following acceptance of this GCD. Note that once
> issues.guix.gnu.org is down, issues will remain visible at
> https://bugs.gnu.org and email archives will remain visible at
> https://mail.gnu.org.
> - Within **30 days** after acceptance of this GCD, mailing list
> administrators will set up the `bug-guix` and `guix-patches` mailing
> lists in =E2=80=9CEmergency Moderation=E2=80=9D mode in the Mailman
> interface=E2=80=94meaning that messages will not get through anymore.
This contradicts GCD 001 no? The 001 requires the GCD to be sent as
patch to guix-patches@HIDDEN How will this be handled? Once 002 is
accepted, will we rush out 004 replacing the 001? Will there be enough
time for that? Once you close the guix-patches, you cannot propose a
*new* GCD per the current rules (and you cannot change the rules without
a GCD), so at least the initial posting *must* happen within those 30
days.
On separate note, there are other projects (well, I know just of
Shepherd, are there others?) than Guix using bug-guix and guix-patches,
so maybe this GCD should go a bit into how that will be handled.
> It
> will still be possible to interact on individual issues via
> `NNN <at> debbugs.gnu.org`.
> - The switchover will be advertised before it takes place with a post
> to `info-guix@HIDDEN`, to `guix-devel@HIDDEN`, as well as through
> a blog post.
> - The =E2=80=9CContributing=E2=80=9D section of the manual will be upda=
ted accordingly
> at that time.
>
> ## User Interfaces
>
> For many contributors, a strength of the email-based workflow is that it
> works out of the browser, possibly offline; we want to preserve that
> comfort as much as possible.
>
> Everything that can be done through Forgejo=E2=80=99s web interface can b=
e done
> *via* its [HTTP
> interface](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/api-usage/).
This is not true. There is no API for getting the Terms of Use.
Changes in those are announced only as a banner on the website (as far
as I can tell).
> This has
> given rise to several Emacs and command-line interfaces that existing
> contributors may find convenient.
>
> [forgejo-cli](https://codeberg.org/Cyborus/forgejo-cli/) and
> [codeberg-cli](https://codeberg.org/Aviac/codeberg-cli) provide rather
> comprehensive command-line interfaces, as [reported by
> Efraim](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00057.ht=
ml).
>
> [fj.el](https://codeberg.org/martianh/fj.el/) is an Emacs interface
> similar to `mastodon.el` that lets you view and comment on issues and
> pull requests, list repositories, view notifications, and so on.
One thing it does not support (based on the README) is the ability to do
an actual code review, which is a bummer.
> It
> does not support off-line access. It can be set up with something like:
>
> ```lisp
> (with-eval-after-load 'fj
> (setq fj-host "https://codeberg.org")
> (setq fj-user "civodul")
> (setq fj-token
> (funcall (plist-get
> (car
> (auth-source-search :host "codeberg.org/api/v1"
> :user fj-user
> :type 'netrc))
> :secret))))
> ```
>
> =E2=80=A6 and a line like this one to `~/.authinfo.gpg`:
>
> ```
> machine codeberg.org/api/v1 login civodul password TOKEN
> ```
>
> =E2=80=A6 where `TOKEN` is the [token obtained from
> Codeberg](https://docs.codeberg.org/advanced/access-token/).
>
> [Magit-Forge](https://github.com/magit/forge/) is another Emacs
> interface to forges, with Magit integration and support for working
> off-line. However, Forgejo support is currently next to nonexistent:
> only `forge-browse` is supported (allowing users to open a browser on a
> forge page).
>
> Besides these interfaces, there is a couple of tricks that can simplify
> the life of contributors and reviewers, out of the browser.
>
> As a contributor, you can create pull requests without first creating a
> fork and then a merge request thanks to the [AGit
> workflow](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/agit-support/). This
> works by passing `git push` the relevant *options*, as in this example:
>
> ```
> git push origin HEAD:refs/for/main \
> -o topic=3D"update-hello" \
> -o title=3D"gnu: hello: Update to 42." \
> -o description=3D'This updates the `hello` package."
> ```
Does this still require a Codeberg account? Can anyone update other
people's pull requests, the way I can currently sent n+1 version of a
patch started by someone else?
>
> As a reviewer, it is possible to pull references of pending pull
> requests by adding something like this to `.git/config`:
>
> ```
> [remote "pulls"]
> url =3D git@HIDDEN:org/guix-science/guix-science.git
> fetch =3D +refs/pull/*/head:refs/remotes/pulls/pr/*
> ```
>
> Running `git fetch pulls` then retrieves references to branches
> corresponding to all the pull requests.
>
> ## Teams
>
> All the teams currently defined in `etc/teams.scm` will be reified as
> [teams](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#team=
s)
> in the [Guix organization](https://codeberg.org/guix).
>
> All these teams would have read-only access to the repositories, with
> the exception of a new *Committers* team, with read-write access to the
> repository, which would contain all the people who already have [commit
> rights on
> Savannah](https://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group=3Dguix)
> (=E2=80=9Con-duty members=E2=80=9D).
>
> Team scopes in `etc/teams.scm` will be converted to a `CODEOWNERS` file
> similar to [that found in
> Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/src/branch/m=
aster/CODEOWNERS).
> That way, pull requests will automatically have them suggested as
> reviewers for changes in their scope.
>
> ## Continuous Integration
>
> Forgejo supports
> [*webhooks*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/webhooks/), `POST`
> requests that are sent to the server of one=E2=80=99s choice upon events =
such as
> pull request creation. Cuirass (running at ci.guix.gnu.org) already
> [supports](https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2025/01/join-the-guix-science-commu=
nity/)
> them and automatically creates a *jobset* when a pull request is made.
> The [QA frontpage](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) and its [Data
> Service](https://data.qa.guix.gnu.org) does not support Forgejo webhooks
> yet but can be extended to do so without too much effort, possibly
> sharing or reusing the Forgejo interface code from Cuirass.
>
> In the Guix repository, we will set up webhooks to trigger the creation
> of a new jobset at ci.guix.gnu.org (Cuirass) as soon as migration is
> complete. While this has been successfully used for several months for
> [Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science), scalability will be
> the major concern here; additional developments may be needed to
> consolidate this support. Eventually the QA frontpage will also support
> those webhooks.
>
> We will arrange so that the build status of a pull request is clearly
> visible right from that pull request.
>
> Eventually, the QA service or a [Forgejo
> *action*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/actions/) may
> automatically provide feedback from `guix lint` as a reply to pull
> requests.
>
> ## Workflow
>
> Once continuous integration (CI) is fully operational, pull requests may
> be merged if and only if they successfully built. =E2=80=9CWorld-rebuild=
=E2=80=9D pull
> requests would still follow the [existing branching
> process](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Managing-Patches-=
and-Branches.html).
>
> Note that since Guix requires signed commits by people listed in
> `.guix-authorizations`, we will *not* be able to click the =E2=80=9CMerge=
=E2=80=9D
> button nor to enable auto-merge on build success.
From the debate I gathered that the merge button can be completely
disabled on the Website, I would suggest to put in here that we will do
that (to prevent mistakes).
>
> If and when the project migrates, we will incrementally adjust our
> workflow to ensure it scales better.
>
> ## Translation
>
> We may eventually consider migrating translation work from [Fedora=E2=80=
=99s
> Weblate](https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/guix/) to
> [Codeberg=E2=80=99s](https://docs.codeberg.org/codeberg-translate/), as a=
way to
> make it more discoverable and better integrated.
>
> # Cost of Reverting
>
> While the project *could* migrate back from Codeberg to bugs.gnu.org
> (Debbugs), migrating issues and pull requests from Codeberg to Debbugs
> would be practically infeasible. It is unlikely that anyone would want
> this.
>
> A more interesting question is: what would it take to migrate to a
> different Forgejo instance or to a different forge?
>
> Migrating to a different Forgejo instance would be rather simple since
> Forgejo is able to *import* entire repositories with their settings
> (including teams) and issues and pull requests from other instances.
> Users would have to create accounts on the new forge instance though.
> However, if federation support matures in Forgejo, one may be able to
> operate on a repository from distinct but *federated* instances. That
> would make any move much easier.
>
> Forgejo appears to support
> [=E2=80=9Cmirroring=E2=80=9D](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/repo-m=
irror/) to
> GitLab instances, for instance, which could help migrating to a GitLab
> instance. Migrating to a sourcehut instance would probably be more
> difficult because of the feature mismatch.
>
> Note that Forgejo offers a [rich HTTP
> interface](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/api-usage/) that
> essentially allows users to get the raw data behind issues, pull
> requests, and more, meaning that it is theoretically always possible to
> grab the data.
>
> # Drawbacks and Open Issues
>
> Leaving it up to an external organization to manage critical
> infrastructure of our project comes with risks.
>
> First, everyone will have to create an account and accept [Codeberg=E2=80=
=99s
> Terms of
> Use](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
> before they can contribute, which can be seen as a step back compared to
> the email-based workflow.
Something to note here is that "contribute" is used in very wide sense.
It contains even just reporting a bug. We will likely lose *some* bug
reports because people will not be willing to jump through the hoops.
Would it be possible to have a bot that would still allow at least to
report bugs via email?
>
> Codeberg e.V., the non-profit that runs Codeberg, could always go
> bankrupt, suffer from governance issues, or run into problems that any
> non-profits face and which could lead to service discontinuation. This
> could be mitigated by weaving close ties with Codeberg e.V., for
> instance by financially supporting it, by setting a joint team to
> monitor resource consumption induced by Guix and discuss any issues
> encountered by either parties proactively, or by [joining
> it](https://join.codeberg.org/) as an active member with voting rights.
>
> The self-hosting option has its appeal for a project with the size and
> values of Guix=E2=80=94it is not uncommon for similar projects to do that=
, an
> example being the [Lix project](https://git.lix.systems/); there even
> exists a [preliminary Forgejo service for
> Guix](https://git.boiledscript.com/hako/Rosenthal/src/commit/7a6a28e872b3=
168f9b6513ccf797e247cd8a366d/rosenthal/services/web.scm#L32).
> However the author thinks that, as it stands, Guix system administrators
> have more than enough on their plate and are perhaps not up to the task
> of providing the availability guarantees we expect from such a service.
>
> As of this writing, Forgejo integration in Cuirass is functional but
> partial (useful configuration options and hardening mechanisms are
> missing) and missing from QA-Frontpage. This will have to be addressed
> to fully take advantage of the new pull-request workflow.
>
Have a nice day,
Tomas
--
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2025 18:07:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 02 13:07:43 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tonj5-0005RT-GL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 13:07:43 -0500 Received: from mail-4018.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.18]:25031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <runciter@HIDDEN>) id 1tonj0-0005R8-A4 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 13:07:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whispers-vpn.org; s=protonmail; t=1740938850; x=1741198050; bh=AnJ4Wz7E3GKvNVn4TpR8/U5QHowNV0ioYZzzWdmQjfg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector: List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=qGNyrCDuZ7XgLnqalS4CItfgYfIzR/hRbXs1jP3odtSAVG8FijSiBdJBflo5I3JDq HLeM1YGVnv2ZcaiN8ecRYRG+l06xfmBXL0xBGjFw2cdn/vKxt7/cI7Nj4mET321Fhg n5rLrUqTjfRIsJdaLxkVQ9OobweUX37nlyqMsfeaeVKJ1IK8FPCXiaQpYhNqZ5NAww VbzX7CwQ1/u4UNQabKwgAAGh3nKQBMLjvc88H8aOpnhh1Yp3b0McG3LSTUS5w9fuDr 6pGji7XMoSQv+Hzb5syiELDADp7Yy6Y9BoCyW4P7lNwuGttpjNURMwiqeNhylsUlkr SxIQIWa0lD6Dw== Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:07:26 +0000 To: "76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> From: runciter@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Message-ID: <U9ssmggQBlFQBjDAWibj3MwwYTg-OPsCUGf3eUrvhye6Qks1D3taPWdE_zw5MF4Oq39sAYrggw0sEMqkK-xm91xd2rS4yihJaGimGwHy1bk=@whispers-vpn.org> Feedback-ID: 119317227:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: d85308b529e3d52251c9ffd3c5f4b6a2a9a062d5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello Guix! I have a question after reading most of this discussion: Git has a 'request-pull' sub-command: git request-pull [-p] <start> <URL> [<end>] On the plus side, most probably, repo duplication on Codeberg would be avoided by contributors who use the 'request-pull' sub-command exclusively. No need for those contributors to deal with a web interface. Most importantly, no mandatory account creation! However, the pull request can be public while under review only if the it is published somehow... probably in some kind of passive mailing list. The contributor must have his own git repository exposed at <URL>, accessible to the official Guix committer(s), which means it won't be convenient or feasible for everybody. There are potential issues with the transparency of the review process, but even if this is considered a problem, then I guess '-p' switch could probably be made mandatory to alleviate any concerns. There's also the question of how this would feed into your QA process, I suppose the QA process would have to be completely unreliant on Codeberg for 'git request-pull' to work with QA. All in all, it couldn't replace forgejo completely without leaving aside some contributors. However, leaving open the options to create or not create a website account on Codeberg would be a * big * thing in that it tackles what I personally see as the most serious objection to the GCD, correctly identified by the initial description message, thanks for that by the way. Hence my question, I guess the answer is probably "no" but let's make sure: Might 'git request-pull' be made an option for Guix contributors in parallel with the forgejo web process, if the GCD goes through? Runciter
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg: LibreJS blocks JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22?=
=?utf-8?Q?'s?= message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:20:34 +0100")
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:18:09 +0100
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> The software behind the forge has to be free software that is
> *plausibly* self-hosted on Guix System=E2=80=94this probably rules out Gi=
tLab
> Community Edition and makes [Forgejo](https://forgejo.org/) the main
> contender.
I have opened the https://codeberg.org in a browser with the LibreJS
extension installed, and two scripts are blocked due to "External script
with no known license":
https://codeberg.org/assets/js/webcomponents.js
https://codeberg.org/assets/js/index.js
They indeed do not seem to contain any kind of license notice.
Since Forgejo is Free software, I assume it is just a matter of some
mark missing somewhere. I am not sure on who this is to fix, whether
Codeberg (Forgejo?) or LibreJS, but I think it would be preferable if
site hosting our repository was not blocked by GNU LibreJS.
Have a nice day,
Tomas
=2D-=20
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
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From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg: Terms of Use
In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22?=
=?utf-8?Q?'s?= message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:20:34 +0100")
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:09:18 +0100
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> [..]
>
> First, everyone will have to create an account and accept [Codeberg=E2=80=
=99s
> Terms of
> Use](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
> before they can contribute, which can be seen as a step back compared to
> the email-based workflow.
I went through the Terms of Use and picked few points I considers
problematic and/or note worthy.
=C2=A7 2 (1) 3. looks pretty annoying for occasional contributors.
=C2=A7 2 (1) 4. forces us to rewrite repository history in case of
compromise, instead of just reverting the malicious commits. I do not
know what the Guix's current policy is for such a case, but it is worth
to keep in mind that we would no longer have a say in the matter.
=C2=A7 2 (4) is annoying for people not familiar with German law (which
includes me). Savannah is in the US, where the rules (possibly aside
the copyright laws) are bit less strict (at least that is my
impression).
=C2=A7 2 (5), especially the "its reputation" part, can easily lead to
loosing Codeberg account, and therefore ability to contribute to Guix,
over, for example, Mastodon toot complaining that Codeberg it down
again. After all, that could very well be considered "Action intended
to damage the [Codeberg's] reputation".
=C2=A7 3 (4) is pretty WTF. They could at least send an email. I plan to
keep working from the Emacs, so I am pretty sure I will not check the
dashboard for announcement messages regarding ToU changes every three
months.
=C2=A7 4 (4) is the typical "we can nuke your account at any time for any
reason". Nice.
And the "You must make sure that we have a way to contact you by keeping
the email address of your account up-to-date." is just a final middle
finger, because while I *have* to keep mail address up to date, they
cannot be bothered to use it to send me information that ToU did change.
I am not sure I agree to these (definitely not to all of them), so I
would probably be precluded from further contributions (since I would
need an account on Codeberg, which I cannot get without agreeing to the
ToU).
Also, there is a pretty nasty failure state when they do change the ToU,
and none of the committers would agree to the change. At that point
they (per the ToU) have to close their accounts and the whole repository
would be just stuck in the void with no way to migrate it away. I agree
this is pretty unlikely though.
All of this would be solved by self hosting, but I definitely understand
your reasons for wanting to avoid that.
Tomas
=2D-=20
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Noris-IP: 87.176.157.87 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Guix Devel <guix-devel@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi, thanks for the updated GCD. I'm in favor of it. Anyhow, some remarks: 1) Regarding the AGit workflow discussed: This looks interesting (haven't tried yet). I suggest adding a section to the GCD that this will be documented within 30 days following acceptance of this GCD (or even earlier). Beside this, I'm curious whether this would be possible without "contributor" permissions – so everybody can submit patches this way. 2) Regarding the issue tracker: I support not migrating issues. Anyhow, i have two concerns, which OTHO can eventually be targeted in another GCD or two: * We might want to migrate the patches, so they don't get lost. It would be interesting whether we could automatically extract the latest patch set and create a pull-request for it, including any cover letter (amended with a link to the original issue). WDYT? * Some "basic" issues are open since long and still need to be addressed - or be closed. If we start using the Codeberg tracker, chances are high issues.guix.gnu.org (and debbugs) will go out of sight and these issues will get lost. Again this can be decided later on. Maybe many old issues could be closed anyway. 3) Regarding workflow and tagging of issues/patches: It might be worth giving some guidance how to tag issues in case. E.g. tagging as "won't fix", "invalid". etc. Again, this can be discussed after migration as this is unrelated to the actual migration. OTOH, if there already is some practice on this, you could add it to the GCD already. -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@HIDDEN | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2025 00:12:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 28 19:12:40 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1toAT9-0003CC-NJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 19:12:40 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:52542) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1toAT6-0003Bg-JS for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 19:12:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740787950; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ag5M8pRPNJSbksFbdvOOuIndhe/xW6Hkl9IUkigTZdg=; b=gJhGBlpZKyzXRExe8TJgnRWySHMuFTFetDb2fE1dqdozQ/Lqw6DRgDYHlvvzw2Z3UPcdcK 7LQxHqiqEOhQEfIYnUJLKrgQ/TsnRNMQUI5IhrfFXgyjR1KMCgaMspObJm/e5hZoCt722I LKNby+aQZgNmlaMVfBu1u0ZQB4ZwkEh8GRMUL4wC+/cNiFdzQOi9FE2gCy5dHlQBIB9rlO t2ZyoxEBFJGRRN8MVkKKRzMy+TaoZJ74TVUjyBRX1qhQ4iv9xOcIE5n49FtUeVz+klJ/rB hJyzbiLCaeJWdruKuHsubJkO2PahGqDwFJkv4SCSn1hDJmzRDUoN9VDS/Mlrrg== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 916dfb00 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 1 Mar 2025 00:12:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87senzmyb5.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87senzmyb5.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2025 00:12:23 +0000 Message-ID: <87eczhzk0o.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi 45mg, > And then, there are the additional features provided by a forge, which > are very difficult to provide in an email-based workflow. For example, > tagging issues. The mumi CLI can now tag issues[1], but I take your point that it is never going to be as easy as a web interface. [1]: https://yhetil.org/guix/87v7t15zl0.fsf@HIDDEN/ > Also, more reliable and integrated QA would probably make a big > difference, since QA seems to be how committers find out whether a > series is ready to apply. While qa.guix.gnu.org is very impressive for a > volunteer effort, it suffers from a lot of issues that don't really > happen in modern forges (eg. failing to detect or apply patches from a > Debbugs submission), and we don't seem to have enough bandwidth to > improve it. A forge would provide most of what it does, and it would be > directly integrated with the rest of the tooling. I believe we will still be using most of our QA system with Codeberg. Codeberg will simply trigger our QA system in some way. The Codeberg CI will likely not have sufficient compute power to do what our QA system does. Also, I don't think the problem with the QA system is that it cannot detect our patches. For some reason, it stopped working at some point. Chris Baines should know the details. I am not very familiar with it. > Could you share what aspects of Debian's organizational structure you'd > like us to mirror? I agree that decentralization is good in principle, > but I'm concerned about needlessly fragmenting the community. I'm not > familiar with how things work in Debian-land. If they've managed to > solve this problem, it'd be good for all of us to know about. I am not too clear about Debian's organizational structure either. I was hoping channels can do for us what Debian's teams do for Debian. Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2025 00:05:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 28 19:05:54 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54921 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1toAMb-0002ZP-Rq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 19:05:54 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:53882) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1toAMV-0002YS-Pd for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 19:05:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740787540; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=R9qBHcqVzsfpJghy0bNEUIsfyHIDqiwsNnNMTN9oPe8=; b=nI7oqfvYQ6RKrvDyg1DYHW0QsmQSBF9ypvE2OGBAyzgO9Uo+S+xgusEHHpxyZlvnErIvpp L0woegCEnrSoHMdm72QYHgrFillXxofWbVBRfR+CY8VfWTfjZwO9kOs+gkA9FA2cX4MJjo Vzu7lJVYDmcQXNGXv7B83/TWP4eLeXegBiQcTMgmSjowUs3rFUCn62opqJHek9Wq9Vscvb HHoh2hxP3tOC9bFv71DD/4wynY2bXv9vMmLZ6cX10VSlwZLx9S+uqJcAU+rg9O3Pno3OYc GiNZvTR7pX7djVfXYMzKSW+7VM493EU/k4hMe6VoLq9IcDg3dJmyg+uuyV6GXQ== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 1bbe5ec4 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 1 Mar 2025 00:05:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2025 00:05:32 +0000 Message-ID: <87h64dzkc3.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo, > You say =E2=80=9Cnot fundamentally opposed=E2=80=9D, but I=E2=80=99d like= to stress that the > process is not about agreeing/disagreeing on an immutable proposal; it=E2= =80=99s > about building it together to into account our concerns and needs. Indeed, my bad. Sorry. The only amendment I would strongly recommend is to require the agit workflow in order to mitigate the storage problem/risk. This may require changes to Forgejo. I say this without ever having used the agit workflow. So others who know better should say so if this is a bad idea. > (BTW, you should give Codeberg a try, as I mentioned in the cover > letter. It would ensure we=E2=80=99re all on the same page.) I do want to. But I didn't because I didn't want to overload your personal repo with too many pull requests. Perhaps we can have a pilot period (say 30 days) when both mumi/debbugs patches and codeberg pull requests would be accepted methods to contribute. This may help put people's minds at ease about the transition, and give them some time to adapt their contribution/review worklows. Finally, I understand that the move to Codeberg is a tough decision, and I wish to express my appreciation for the leadership you are providing the project. Thank you, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Feb 2025 22:34:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 28 17:34:13 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1to8vs-0001TM-TP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:34:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49420) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1to8vo-0001SV-Ey for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:34:10 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1to8vf-0001jT-OV; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 17:33:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=KoLkY128JAQaFU1aYeKqjsCwUoZwbDgiFFqXlKFsFZY=; b=o6/D/d3NB6pkY5E0UNrN Eh2Hjuk92WpMJgtbymiLg3Dj5Oc2PgCwnWhMbHrRxMJ5EHgcIKZeDpFkJfoFvybp0KXAie8w0E3bw uAGW/DRKa9FM+YxjvQ1JCLGhXkQSHt1mpExO28vCy8XzzFkoq/0sR4s1xOScy5uh5XBlKRd3nttJX +p1FEWLFAPbIvGFPnEOQ87W/Pdbk7eQYcA8pFBMweX+kAXM/vHXhzlb+pKLOmKvLjlLFaoAiOjaVH RW0g6cmOPfB9Jpe+usrFPSaKGo//xySWVwLD3qTmJnTmARg9v38Oy2Ax3XTtVMQwR4HCxT6sIIaYf Dr0VMumWRd+37w==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> (Arun Isaac's message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:44:29 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 23:33:32 +0100 Message-ID: <877c59lmwz.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Arun, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> skribis: >> Assuming we agree that a move along the lines of this proposal is >> desirable (let me know if you think we don=E2=80=99t share that premise)= , what >> other options would you think of? > > I think we share the premise. I am not fundamentally opposed to the > proposal in any way. Lowering the barrier to entry and making the > project more accessible is a good thing. But=E2=80=A6 You say =E2=80=9Cnot fundamentally opposed=E2=80=9D, but I=E2=80=99d like t= o stress that the process is not about agreeing/disagreeing on an immutable proposal; it=E2= =80=99s about building it together to into account our concerns and needs. > According to the survey, only 9% want a pull request workflow, while 20% > just want timely reviews. My hunch (I have no data or proof) is that the > 9% would also be perfectly happy if we just provide them timely reviews. There are many factors contributing to the lack of timely reviews. As someone reviewing patches every week and who also tried the PR model and tools despite a natural aversion, I can tell that tools play a role. Examples: I easily lose track of updated patch versions and comments because they=E2=80=99re just more unread email in my inbox; contributors sometimes lose track of what they sent, so they open a new issue, and I find myself digging for the original submission and review; people comment on each other=E2=80=99s issues but there=E2=80=99s no way to know u= nless you read every single message. And the list goes on. Annoyances like this make reviewing tedious and discouraging. These specific issues go away on Codeberg and similar platforms. Will that be enough to achieve timely reviews? No, but I=E2=80=99m sure it can = help. (BTW, you should give Codeberg a try, as I mentioned in the cover letter. It would ensure we=E2=80=99re all on the same page.) [...] > The proposal mentions better automation of our review process. But, many > of our review processes are not automatable=E2=80=94at least not easily s= o. I agree. And it=E2=80=99s also true that the important bit, qa.guix, does = not require Codeberg to exist. A =E2=80=9Cmodern forge=E2=80=9D just makes it = easier to automate things and to integrate them with the contribution workflow. [...] > Requiring the agit workflow and disallowing forks (preferably enforced > by technical means), thus solving the storage problem, would remove my > most important grievances with this proposal. I don=E2=80=99t think there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cstorage problem=E2=80=9D. = There=E2=80=99s a storage risk, and it=E2=80=99s one of several=E2=80=94there are other ways Codeberg could fai= l, some are spelled out in the GCD. In my view, what we need to do during the discussion period is to find ways to mitigate and deal with those risks in the months and years to come. We already discussed the storage risk before; what more do you think should be done? How would you amend the proposal to better address this and other concerns your raised? Thank you, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2025 14:41:07 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 27 09:41:06 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tnf4U-0001wv-8l for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:41:06 -0500 Received: from 4.mo575.mail-out.ovh.net ([46.105.59.63]:50525) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ngraves@HIDDEN>) id 1tnf4P-0001vv-4g for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:41:02 -0500 Received: from director6.ghost.mail-out.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.25.4]) by mo575.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z3YtM0JM5z1vJ1 for <76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 Feb 2025 14:40:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ghost-submission-5b5ff79f4f-dcnc9 (unknown [10.110.168.221]) by director6.ghost.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67BDE1FE9D; Thu, 27 Feb 2025 14:40:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ngraves.fr ([37.59.142.112]) by ghost-submission-5b5ff79f4f-dcnc9 with ESMTPSA id uWIyAXl5wGdC9AQApy6uvQ (envelope-from <ngraves@HIDDEN>); Thu, 27 Feb 2025 14:40:57 +0000 Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-112S0061fa0402f-9d68-477b-a543-24f656754668, 852F381DE14AD356CABD73FF6ED6F710EC841544) smtp.auth=ngraves@HIDDEN X-OVh-ClientIp: 176.140.199.36 From: Nicolas Graves <ngraves@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 15:40:55 +0100 Message-ID: <87h64fih6w.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 8753590304412263096 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgdekjeejvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvfevufgjfhffkfggtgfgsehtqhertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefpihgtohhlrghsucfirhgrvhgvshcuoehnghhrrghvvghssehnghhrrghvvghsrdhfrheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepffduleekjeevteelueffjeefffethffhffeutdettefhleeuleevffejvdfftdffnecukfhppeduvdejrddtrddtrddupddujeeirddugedtrdduleelrdefiedpfeejrdehledrudegvddrudduvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepnhhgrhgrvhgvshesnhhgrhgrvhgvshdrfhhrpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedupdhrtghpthhtohepjeeihedtfeesuggvsggsuhhgshdrghhnuhdrohhrghdpoffvtefjohhsthepmhhoheejhegmpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuth DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=UiKNWYX3pSuAD9IT1EjTs1Y5UKl1HvEl1yj20VWj3W4=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ngraves.fr; h=From; s=ovhmo4487190-selector1; t=1740667259; v=1; b=mnUPclsO6b1gJ1mlREYPKtuBkU0/Qt+jB0GQc5HI/MGwjEts+CbJYHbfF7oZ+D8k8RLPCI7x wzevhgj1CMUNOSZXBHSk3wqwXpwSMX0rFpwSUW4qVUPxi0e+u0aR/poRkP6KYsqEUbCn2Y5S5V6 Q2+1z6fVvXlh2BRqFIutePv5mOTP2kSKUXni+zv8o6oeUEYrMyaSzeOPTXrJs/Z+QYO5PpzcLOD yyyC5ARiAimigq1ZK/HWhi2u6bf+YLN2U+38eqkcXbvtzddytVCjdo3DxApaKb0hoM2nW60gcd7 t+z4a/wDS2VGBwV4EFCEf3kqz2GF5jX/sP7wEjXuubrrA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-02-27 01:44, Arun Isaac wrote: > Hi Ludo, > >> First, thank you and Ricardo for mumi. I didn=E2=80=99t write a single = line of >> it but I certainly encouraged it, enjoyed it (the version you deployed >> yesterday or so is super nice, BTW!), and for a long time saw it as the >> key to providing a good contributor experience =E2=80=9Cto those who don= =E2=80=99t like >> email=E2=80=9D. > > Thank you, I appreciate it. :-) I have more improvements (filtering > issues by team, for instance) in the pipeline, and will probably deploy > them in another week or so. TY! Just a light comment on improvements, since I talked about that at Guix Paris recently. One of the things is also the improvements on the GNU/Debbugs side. On sourcehut, the server is able to recognise a patch series / thread despite git send-email sending everything at once, since the Message-ID contains the patch number in the series. Is there someone working on that side? Would be weird if not, more than 5 years after Sourcehut has started. FYI, I'm delving into both piem and emacs-git-email with 4 bugs sent upstream (2 fixed already, 2 in the process). They are great tools, but I've felt like many frustrated because of their lack of polish. Will keep this up in the coming months. --=20 Best regards, Nicolas Graves
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Thu, 27 Feb 2025 08:37:35 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 08:37:13 -0500 From: "Leo Famulari" <leo@HIDDEN> To: "Arun Isaac" <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <cde1c80c-3dac-42b2-a96b-1a7e90f11726@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r03k17r6.fsf@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, Feb 26, 2025, at 20:44, Arun Isaac wrote: > The proposal mentions better automation of our review process. But, ma= ny > of our review processes are not automatable=E2=80=94at least not easil= y so. For > example: the avoidance of marketing language in synopses and > descriptions, the listing of licenses for every single file in the > source tarball, A minor point for those reading along: we do not list the licenses of ev= ery single file in source tarballs. We only describe the license of the = package.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8?=
=?utf-8?Q?s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> writes:
> According to the survey, only 9% want a pull request workflow, while 20%
> just want timely reviews. My hunch (I have no data or proof) is that the
> 9% would also be perfectly happy if we just provide them timely reviews.
The thing is, moving to Codeberg isn't just about the pull-request
workflow. I don't really care about that. What I care about is having a
/forge/, and all the features that come with it.
A forge would make the collaboration process far more accessible,
because it would provide a decent default experience for every
contributor (ie. the web interface). There would be no need to set up
isync/offlineimap/whatever + Notmuch/Mu4e/GNUs/mutt/whatever just for
the bare minimum of a decent UI for plain-text email.
And then, there are the additional features provided by a forge, which
are very difficult to provide in an email-based workflow. For example,
tagging issues. We have Debbugs usertags, but the majority of
contributors will not see them, because they'd have to use the Debbugs
web interface - and I struggle to imagine anyone ever doing that
willingly. I have tried to set up debbugs.el, but I couldn't get it
working the last time I tried, and frankly I don't have the energy to
configure even more Emacs-specific tooling that I will never use
anywhere else (as if contributing isn't difficult enough for non-Emacs
users...). Perhaps this is why I've observed that usertags don't really
get used much, outside of QA reviews maybe ('reviewed-looks-good').
Now compare this with the situation on GitHub or Codeberg, where there's
a web interface that even a child could figure out, that shows the same
view to everyone. So if you tag issues, you can be sure that everyone
will see the tags. It's that simple.
Also, more reliable and integrated QA would probably make a big
difference, since QA seems to be how committers find out whether a
series is ready to apply. While qa.guix.gnu.org is very impressive for a
volunteer effort, it suffers from a lot of issues that don't really
happen in modern forges (eg. failing to detect or apply patches from a
Debbugs submission), and we don't seem to have enough bandwidth to
improve it. A forge would provide most of what it does, and it would be
directly integrated with the rest of the tooling.
> And, to provide timely reviews, we need to be focussing on entirely
> different things=E2=80=94for example, the infinite growth of our package
> collection and the strictness of our code reviews. If we could decompose
> Guix into smaller channels, some of which have less stringent review
> processes, we may get much faster reviews. To some extent, we see this
> already in channels such as guix-science (less stringent review),
> guix-cran (no review!), etc. Centralization of review and decision
> making does not scale well. To grow, we need to devolve power. One day,
> we aim to be as big as or bigger than Debian. We cannot do that without,
> in some way, imitating their organizational structure.
Could you share what aspects of Debian's organizational structure you'd
like us to mirror? I agree that decentralization is good in principle,
but I'm concerned about needlessly fragmenting the community. I'm not
familiar with how things work in Debian-land. If they've managed to
solve this problem, it'd be good for all of us to know about.
> The Codeberg move aims to make it easier for contributors. But, if
> anything, we already have too many contributions and are unable to keep
> up with reviews! :-D Codeberg is likely to increase the number of
> contributors without significantly increasing the number of reviewers. I
> cannot be sure of this, nor can I provide much in the way of proof; only
> time will tell.
As I mentioned above, I think features like tagging, reliable detection
of merge conflicts, and a decent and consistent interface would remove a
lot of the friction involved in contribution/review. And since reviewers
are also contributors, a nicer and more efficient contribution process
would mean more time and energy left over for review.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:44:39 +0000 (UTC)
From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to
Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:44:29 +0000
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Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>,
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Hi Ludo,
> First, thank you and Ricardo for mumi. I didn=E2=80=99t write a single l=
ine of
> it but I certainly encouraged it, enjoyed it (the version you deployed
> yesterday or so is super nice, BTW!), and for a long time saw it as the
> key to providing a good contributor experience =E2=80=9Cto those who don=
=E2=80=99t like
> email=E2=80=9D.
Thank you, I appreciate it. :-) I have more improvements (filtering
issues by team, for instance) in the pipeline, and will probably deploy
them in another week or so.
> Your message raises concerns about the storage/bandwidth requirements of
> Guix and the ability of a non-profit to keep up.
>
> I agree with Leo and the GCD mentions it as well: we need to talk with
> Codeberg e.V. from the start, possibly becoming a voting member, and to
> offer funding.
Good points, I agree.
> Codeberg e.V. is specialized so I=E2=80=99d like to believe they have a l=
ot of
> headroom.
> That they=E2=80=99re transparent and upfront about their scalability issu=
es is
> a rather good sign to me.
I agree. I liked the honesty of the person we met at the FOSDEM stall.
And, I like it that their blog discusses their scaling issues openly.
> Assuming we agree that a move along the lines of this proposal is
> desirable (let me know if you think we don=E2=80=99t share that premise),=
what
> other options would you think of?
I think we share the premise. I am not fundamentally opposed to the
proposal in any way. Lowering the barrier to entry and making the
project more accessible is a good thing. But=E2=80=A6
According to the survey, only 9% want a pull request workflow, while 20%
just want timely reviews. My hunch (I have no data or proof) is that the
9% would also be perfectly happy if we just provide them timely reviews.
And, to provide timely reviews, we need to be focussing on entirely
different things=E2=80=94for example, the infinite growth of our package
collection and the strictness of our code reviews. If we could decompose
Guix into smaller channels, some of which have less stringent review
processes, we may get much faster reviews. To some extent, we see this
already in channels such as guix-science (less stringent review),
guix-cran (no review!), etc. Centralization of review and decision
making does not scale well. To grow, we need to devolve power. One day,
we aim to be as big as or bigger than Debian. We cannot do that without,
in some way, imitating their organizational structure. Shovelling more
coal into the fire may not be enough. It might work for a bit, but then
we'll just hit another limit and be stuck again. And, considering the
counterintuitive speed of exponential growth, we may reach that new
limit in no time. Some version of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law applies here.
The proposal mentions better automation of our review process. But, many
of our review processes are not automatable=E2=80=94at least not easily so.=
For
example: the avoidance of marketing language in synopses and
descriptions, the listing of licenses for every single file in the
source tarball, the indentation of code[1], etc. Some rules such as the
use of double space[2] are antiquated and can be dropped with no
consequence. Our baroque Changelong format is another target of much ire
(even though I personally like it enough to use it in my own projects!).
[1]: there's human judgement involved (and for good reason) despite guix
style and other tools
[2]: Even the behaviour of Emacs sentence commands are not much of an
excuse here. I found out recently about the
sentence-end-double-space variable.
The Codeberg move aims to make it easier for contributors. But, if
anything, we already have too many contributions and are unable to keep
up with reviews! :-D Codeberg is likely to increase the number of
contributors without significantly increasing the number of reviewers. I
cannot be sure of this, nor can I provide much in the way of proof; only
time will tell.
I am sure a move to Codeberg can be seen as orthogonal to all these
concerns. And, perhaps it is. But, I'm just saying we should discuss the
limitations of this approach and be more aware of the larger
bottlenecks. What if we're throwing away the email workflow for nothing!
[half kidding] ;-)
Requiring the agit workflow and disallowing forks (preferably enforced
by technical means), thus solving the storage problem, would remove my
most important grievances with this proposal. I don't mean to block this
proposal at all. Let us proceed.
Thank you for your time and your patience.
Cheers!
Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2025 21:02:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 26 16:02:16 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tnOXn-0000Cz-QK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 16:02:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tnOXk-0000Cb-OH for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 16:02:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tnOXb-00034Z-VC; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 16:02:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=RX3OviZSNyylBJfMNaUBfdWvIGAEgAnwYi6rjmTIlJQ=; b=q9GHgZWgcbwdG3QcXv0j 8MVkuYYgv+fLaJbFPhUYqvDc+7sWd8FPx6pjzuBe+Po04pFzUCsEUbl/VWfYp80Sx9uH8fvtYL1EC 0aWotedwJxv1Ze1eFZ4QkhUYJwvVvfJ3Os5hbBpAW4NOX7nDKN2sEcdpO4UoBAHSxmdMkYoywIGon 22Dp3lxb9zItosIr2YHpYF81i/boriHNWY+1vhANMOfU9w/np8XJoGgXGu+qV0Z1NeliPA7PrwYZ3 0ZvyU5N6x9hWrd4tb3mb1IP44rZGChBNG4nu6wl+SYee+z0xnwSBgvGQ5KuGX0Tn29u4z+qoljLy2 xm0rhzWiUQqDyA==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> (Arun Isaac's message of "Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:03:02 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 22:01:47 +0100 Message-ID: <8734g01kuc.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Arun, Thanks for your feedback. First, thank you and Ricardo for mumi. I didn=E2=80=99t write a single lin= e of it but I certainly encouraged it, enjoyed it (the version you deployed yesterday or so is super nice, BTW!), and for a long time saw it as the key to providing a good contributor experience =E2=80=9Cto those who don=E2= =80=99t like email=E2=80=9D. I think I was/we were wrong in two ways: first it=E2=80=99s not just about providing a web interface, and second there are limitations in our workflow that we just cannot overcome, as I tried to explain in the =E2=80=9CMotivation=E2=80=9D section. We tried, very hard, and for a reaso= n: a belief (as far as I=E2=80=99m concerned) that we could not only be responsible for= our infra but also, in a way, that we could show fellow free software hackers that an alternative development model was possible. Your message raises concerns about the storage/bandwidth requirements of Guix and the ability of a non-profit to keep up. I agree with Leo and the GCD mentions it as well: we need to talk with Codeberg e.V. from the start, possibly becoming a voting member, and to offer funding. FWIW, we=E2=80=99re at 600=C2=A0MiB=C2=B9 out of the 750=C2= =A0MiB quota=C2=B2. The GCD documents AGit; we could make it the recommended way to contribute, if that helps. Will Codeberg manage to keep up? We don=E2=80=99t know. It=E2=80=99s not = the first non-profit doing it though. Framasoft has been running a popular GitLab instance=C2=B3 with 76k projects for 53k people=E2=81=B4; its budget is hig= her but they=E2=80=99re also doing primarily things unrelated to source code hostin= g. Codeberg e.V. is specialized so I=E2=80=99d like to believe they have a lot= of headroom. That they=E2=80=99re transparent and upfront about their scalabi= lity issues is a rather good sign to me. Assuming we agree that a move along the lines of this proposal is desirable (let me know if you think we don=E2=80=99t share that premise), w= hat other options would you think of? Ludo=E2=80=99. =C2=B9 https://codeberg.org/guix/guix-mirror =C2=B2 https://blog.codeberg.org/more-power-for-you-what-a-storage-quota-wi= ll-bring.html =C2=B3 https://framagit.org/ =E2=81=B4 https://framablog.org/2024/12/28/framasoft-en-chiffres-edition-20= 24/
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2025 20:50:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 26 15:50:59 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tnOMt-000867-D3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:50:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tnOMp-00085o-UP for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:50:57 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tnOMf-0001rM-10; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:50:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=x8YGREqAydictynOw5ONNSCRgdatfiDR/bELfVWiwzI=; b=G8itCkHDz+8TL0klSV8U hh0Fs96BaqKOcsvWbWJJsLe7BCk/JzbTf+S/aAuguUmuh02o43Pd7Ql+8D6+xl1tklEKvmY29Cp6U A20c/DXF4GqfRM3cidZCuXvWHqVFCkGMSxPwDYNFSKHXBKGVTGejeRT+3oWmCCOGEd2do7LOao82L jkgK0TJCrI5iySMhHXPwHVXzuGbmbke5gwlSgZ72VWLMm76XvU8SI9qji0V1EgvB7V3tXdIVD6X7W 7o8yLmMNOllXgX/aEtQLw3sBFYnbeTpr30WtYRSm73unFqUioPj8fo8kCpRg7VdbDYrkRRDWYHArU JF02RMW2+IC+/A==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76503: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87cyf5uhax.fsf@HIDDEN> (45mg.writes@HIDDEN's message of "Wed, 26 Feb 2025 10:33:10 +0000") References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <Z74UiyW3L768mraY@HIDDEN> <87r03l35on.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyf5uhax.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 21:50:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87wmdc1ldj.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> skribis: > If shallow cloning leads to a truncated commit history that doesn't > include the current introductory commit > (9edb3f66fd807b096b48283debdcddccfea34bad), then you'd need to specify a > later commit as the introductory commit during the first run of `guix > git authenticate`. Other than that, it should still work. In practice, it always starts from the current commit. That is, if you install 1.4.0, it assumes that the corresponding commit is authentic and starts from there, rather than from the introductory commit. IOW, you only need the history up to a known-good commit. Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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[14.139.162.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-7347a839ed8sm3186019b3a.175.2025.02.26.02.33.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 26 Feb 2025 02:33:17 -0800 (PST) From: 45mg <45mg.writes@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87r03l35on.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <Z74UiyW3L768mraY@HIDDEN> <87r03l35on.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 10:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: <87cyf5uhax.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> writes: >> Like I've said several times in this discussion so far, we should look >> into the state of the art of shallow cloning. It might be efficient >> enough on the server-side these days to be the smart move. I agree that >> downloading 1 GB in this context is bad. > > Good idea. I don't know if our `guix authenticate' security model would > still work with a shallow clone. But, it's worth exploring. If shallow cloning leads to a truncated commit history that doesn't include the current introductory commit (9edb3f66fd807b096b48283debdcddccfea34bad), then you'd need to specify a later commit as the introductory commit during the first run of `guix git authenticate`. Other than that, it should still work.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2025 00:45:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 19:45:47 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tn5YZ-0002pz-II for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:45:47 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:56172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tn5YV-0002pj-EM for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:45:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740530735; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=T4WFMtg7SfUO+gamrjoCmVSYczKquNdeJO/cHUpRoJE=; b=ORrQWP0xriWpR5Bdw25umwcxPGLkyfWXjHcdZc4oN9ScsKlng03xEg40g7V0xsrvHPY0ka EHMbV77i10Uzx0QyV+t3sPMklE8TAVLhH5nUio6Cc1GHnBpB2D/SDsZ7H9Id2l9cJVZhCL UwERlg1lxLAOQn5zLDi7/ASMlf7Diau5PCEsNBI6CIFfq53u3I8mXqFTLp7G8r8M2Bktd+ WxYJTOqV3KvHhWtfDdnxhOjKE+v0wOgEWCDhBAYFjeRF50WICm04AuVtMOSi9oWf/l9mZU ZlkhBOpoB5lo8lpTYvK4/KU6QiubjcuUS7nQJ6JABHwxo2DfYuHgZygp6SHsrg== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id dd478fc7 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:45:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:45:25 +0000 Message-ID: <87ldtt355m.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN, rekado@HIDDEN, slade@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Cayetano, > Would it be a valid option to keep N mirrors, all in sync, aside from > the main repo ? Upon pulling, you randomly hit one of them. Yes, that could be one possible solution. Another solution could be to have a single URL but load balance at the DNS level based on your IP address provided location. > Is there a reason to avoid this approach (even now) ? Not that I'm aware of. Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2025 00:41:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 19:41:17 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49288 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tn5UD-0002NY-3K for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:41:17 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:52276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tn5U9-0002NE-H4 for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:41:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740530466; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Y1bh7K/2yVPNAnerIGoToWApf4/pRicFTaWfdhcHfw4=; b=HtIKx76tlKF9u0rbalafmXHl7IFWdsICUvKo569WQAxYB8yDi0zd174/jw9y9pA/1a05r/ CUYoCWS151nqpL0pUzYAiZZMz4rhBdqJOKATxb24bh5RkR/wplIOsNKgptvWhpl/azfaOE pnEIhGxEEiO4vhmMdvBtkzj9hAzCPTr8PKFbI3zMKsXkZfgduhsxfx/MDlLxjIyPKuM2OA eFV0mI6kxyQ/n9jgkp/E77wHZpzB1ptu5YvAj110xMf8QonogaYOahzY92ZIOsMWOLlPh8 IfRg/LjKWVCyLNg5UV+6Ok13QueKCbik0F9TfyOsLKfhbgTH1jGEhPZKqVmsiw== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 948a772d (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:41:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87ikoyks8g.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ikoyks8g.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:40:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87o6yp35d4.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ricardo, > With the AGit workflow we can open pull requests without a prior fork. Interesting. I didn't know this was possible. If we can require all our users to do this and disable forking of our repo, then that might solve all our storage issues. Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2025 00:34:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 19:34:27 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tn5Na-0001zf-WB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:34:27 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:43910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tn5NX-0001zK-4e for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:34:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740530052; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=lvT7SbjbUa9JH0ECoJJwDPxjLhbhtWzGqNw5cH2y2PM=; b=PHEc5YwfywtLqg2JSUyt0upyWZPsdzGUYRPWj5WW9q3u04TCLms6CdlocRoGnukEGpZLsT 8vOwBjXW3aq1ei47trQpu6bxHOvMY6j1bg0frdSJUnwWii1AFUyXhOQerEuyKj+aaoWHo6 vHI2uv3eFsij+Rd1ecglvw96ulCNbGdt4nOjzy6IyBn0uh77ePr2q6Ap/2kkRFUrrdsmzg O/AybUho2hr6i0qSPDQbRJOW0qrYYmVRCuL+2joH3JpPM6jpxvjKlicZHeTepj0+v1VEnP UxMSPSDawMF80vLW8rOXybVVTTiaAAuIS1Nz3shhaqM/jB642lsR/mhoFUorhQ== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id d060313d (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:34:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <Z74UiyW3L768mraY@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> <Z74UiyW3L768mraY@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:34:00 +0000 Message-ID: <87r03l35on.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Leo, > I disagree that 1 TiB, or even 10 TiB, is enormous. It's certainly > large, but it's "entry-level" for a web service with 1000 users in 2025. > And a 10 TiB hard drive only costs ~$200. I know that's is a lot for > some people and places, but it's nothing for something like this. The > blog post you linked to even says "But storage is cheap!" And it really > is the cheapest thing in computing these days. Aha, I'm not sure you read that article[1] carefully! :-) The very next sentence immediately after "But storage is cheap!" is "It is not", followed by "All data on Codeberg probably fits into a 12 TB drive". That paragraph actually goes on to explain why storage is *not* cheap and why it's more complicated than just buying a few more disks. [1]: https://blog.codeberg.org/more-power-for-you-what-a-storage-quota-will-bring.html >> As well-intentioned as Codeberg is, a single non-profit hoping to host >> all the git repos in the world in perpetuity and free of charge is a >> very tough proposition. > > Well, we already are in that position: we depend on the FSF completely > for our Git hosting. True. I'm not saying our current situation is great. But, at least the FSF is not planning to try and host all the world's git repos! That's the point I'm making here. >> [5]: Quick digression: Users must actually download about 1 GiB of data >> on their first guix pull. That's frustrating to new users, and >> effectively excludes users from parts of the world where a good Internet >> connection cannot be taken for granted. > > Like I've said several times in this discussion so far, we should look > into the state of the art of shallow cloning. It might be efficient > enough on the server-side these days to be the smart move. I agree that > downloading 1 GB in this context is bad. Good idea. I don't know if our `guix authenticate' security model would still work with a shallow clone. But, it's worth exploring. Regards, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:05:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:05:47 -0500 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Message-ID: <Z74UiyW3L768mraY@HIDDEN> References: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 02:03:02PM +0000, Arun Isaac wrote: > And, while I strongly prefer the email workflow, I concede that moving > to a pull request workflow will lower the barrier to entry simply > because it is more familiar thanks to GitHub's dominant mindshare. So, > unless there is significant support for mumi and the email workflow, I > will stand aside and go with the flow of the community. That said, my > arguments against Codeberg follow. I think we have similar feelings here. I'll miss living inside of Mutt but I think we are losing a lot by not using a web-based platform. > Now, we have a little more than 1K contributors. That means, we are > already up to 1 TiB in storage. That's enormous, especially > considering that all data on Codeberg combined adds up to only 12 > TiB[3]. I disagree that 1 TiB, or even 10 TiB, is enormous. It's certainly large, but it's "entry-level" for a web service with 1000 users in 2025. And a 10 TiB hard drive only costs ~$200. I know that's is a lot for some people and places, but it's nothing for something like this. The blog post you linked to even says "But storage is cheap!" And it really is the cheapest thing in computing these days. If Codeberg is really only hosting 12 TiB, then I suggest that either 1) they can't handle Guix or 2) they are ready to scale up. And Guix should think about helping them with scaling capital if necessary. > I was present with Ludo and others when we visited the Codeberg stall at > FOSDEM, and enquired about the possibility of hosting Guix on Codeberg. > The person at the stall was hesitant about our large repo, and our many > users. In fact, in order to save on disk space, they suggested that we > encourage our contributors to delete their forks once done. :-D Needless > to say, that's never going to happen! Interesting, that's not the impression I got from other emails from people who were there. We need to clear this up with Codeberg now if we want to make this change. It sounds like we would be their first medium-sized user (I don't consider Guix to be large). Like I said, we should be ready to offer help with fundraising. > As well-intentioned as Codeberg is, a single non-profit hoping to host > all the git repos in the world in perpetuity and free of charge is a > very tough proposition. Well, we already are in that position: we depend on the FSF completely for our Git hosting. https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/42888848 > Critical parts of our distribution infrastructure should be directly > under our own control. We are a large enough and specialized enough > organization that this is necessary. I think it would be great if we could do this, but I haven't seen any evidence that we can. In my years with Guix, we have always struggled to operate our infrastructure. Also, I'll point out that it is an opinion, not a fact, that we "should" do this. Very few free software projects host their own Git servers. But like I said, the prospect does appeal to me. But I don't volunteer to do it :) > [5]: Quick digression: Users must actually download about 1 GiB of data > on their first guix pull. That's frustrating to new users, and > effectively excludes users from parts of the world where a good Internet > connection cannot be taken for granted. Like I've said several times in this discussion so far, we should look into the state of the art of shallow cloning. It might be efficient enough on the server-side these days to be the smart move. I agree that downloading 1 GB in this context is bad.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2025 15:37:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 10:37:50 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmx0I-0005ti-3h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:37:50 -0500 Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com ([17.58.38.52]:44328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <wongandj@HIDDEN>) id 1tmx0E-0005tM-Fi for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:37:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=1a1hai; bh=KR9Gv8DOI0fsUhUpaSrnJgJiMnbTFRr5i4LPN2Y5YMQ=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To:x-icloud-hme; b=IodSUIFM/WxIHusUAoEKEuW302RDfypjTOiMMSGNGRUqfoMe4fGf3Ldv3BA2dOxdc uInGLzCgStGnivjMAIwkPfeQdcaIXo3mNamj6Bb7NuVWk4ViMaeHkfCABbozmOXJJ4 r4XXXw5cOffKOsgUuHdYEuToqj2gHF4BLOBP9Wb9CYSbVIgiCFBfbG/zXM9ObA69IE wozJ+ijy/+LSlpffsdxkOxelLgA0nhXrkdo9CYLM4JrY8BF8pKhp6z7V7TCZcvYrww swkYTJyki83gM88f3B53dZ53DuzQBsKXgFG+47DXzC1A7a7bMNfuQx4eAJaHhwYrzi ogkgRUS5zDr4w== Received: from smtpclient.apple (ms11p00im-dlb-asmtpmailmevip.me.com [17.57.154.19]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C9F4AC017D; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Andrew Wong <wongandj@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:37:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3378B5D5-604F-4556-91C3-C6C1C028D6D8@HIDDEN> References: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87v7sydq2r.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (20C65) X-Proofpoint-GUID: A0reIB2upW014N_iRF7Rq-kMmHAfxBLb X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: A0reIB2upW014N_iRF7Rq-kMmHAfxBLb X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1057,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-02-25_04,2025-02-25_03,2024-11-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=768 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2502250103 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: rekado@HIDDEN, arunisaac@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN, slade@HIDDEN, 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > On Feb 25, 2025, at 10:04 AM, Cayetano Santos via Guix-patches via <guix-p= atches@HIDDEN> wrote: > Still, I wonder how Github > educated people, reluctant to email exchange, will react to a >=20 > git push origin HEAD:refs/for/<target-branch>/<session> >=20 > based workflow, and if this really lowers the barrier to entry[1]. The linked page refers to a tool called =E2=80=9Cgit-repo=E2=80=9D, which sm= ooths out the more technical bits to commands like =E2=80=9Cgit pr=E2=80=9D.= =46rom appearances it seems like using this tool is lower-investment for us= ers than configuring (or changing!) their email client to interact with mail= ing lists and the mail-in patch workflow properly. It also helps that this (= optional?) special tool is more =E2=80=9Corthogonal=E2=80=9D to other workfl= ows, rather than involving something as central as emails.=
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb@HIDDEN>
To: arunisaac@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: [bug#76503] [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches
to Codeberg
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> The storage issue is particularly pertinent considering how big of a
> project we are and how big our git repo is.
Agit workflow is something to consider. Still, I wonder how Github
educated people, reluctant to email exchange, will react to a
git push origin HEAD:refs/for/<target-branch>/<session>
based workflow, and if this really lowers the barrier to entry[1].
> Then, there's the bandwidth issue as well.
Would it be a valid option to keep N mirrors, all in sync, aside from
the main repo ? Upon pulling, you randomly hit one of them. Is there a
reason to avoid this approach (even now) ?
> As well-intentioned as Codeberg is ...
Fully agree.
C.
[1] https://git-repo.info/en/2020/03/agit-flow-and-git-repo/
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
In-Reply-To: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> (Arun Isaac's message of "Tue,
25 Feb 2025 14:03:02 +0000")
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Hi Arun,
> GitHub invented the fork+pull-request workflow. Despite git's
> under-the-hood hardlinking magic, the pull request workflow is very
> expensive in terms of disk space.
With the AGit workflow we can open pull requests without a prior fork.
I've done this before on the Guix Science channel:
https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/pulls/71
There is a little "AGit" tag linking to
https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/agit-support/
The downside of using the AGit workflow is that it requires using an
unwieldy command, but personally I find it less cumbersome than the
common pull request workflow with an extra fork, clone of the fork (or
registering of an "upstream" remote), push to the fork, then pull
request from fork to upstream.
Your points about storage limits are important, though. We may have to
disable on-platform forks to nudge contributors to the AGit workflow.
--
Ricardo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2025 14:03:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 09:03:44 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmvXE-0000KZ-94 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 09:03:44 -0500 Received: from mugam.systemreboot.net ([139.59.75.54]:47266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <arunisaac@HIDDEN>) id 1tmvX7-0000KB-Hw for 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 09:03:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemreboot.net; s=default; t=1740492201; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to; bh=oR2sNLrF8C++gvf2w43kxqBDPYdDu0dDiAV374yXsxQ=; b=UuDPgxCHCkRVZbr5alY8WE9GxL7L/nvQwx0RpUG2F7mMJv07zF7FVjPhePShg7aHUSO/lU /sRkbqe8ceNXJYgpJ3ZjvLYOeMNWPmuzOShLKG0xPSCFOpkWpz414CiUS859BWbRcvux2u FR4s13m9pGFOLSXcc1L2JLRbWMrVfZsOhYq/lZiVXGdnsLvN/jlRK3pPUCKO+/z63wmoq/ 1vfHTUM1U1tN0YM/0aRtw3tO9KVAQ1O+4baKib9M+CD+YWgK9M4yELrLPde4VrX7S1Xsky 4f/YCfNMLJsHR8YDILHIqbIgCxxk0mbyoHH/6U3JO4AOBBWyJ+YBzhAC9YqqXA== Received: from localhost (<unknown> [192.168.2.1]) by mugam.systemreboot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 2220f13f (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:03:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Arun Isaac <arunisaac@HIDDEN> To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg In-Reply-To: <87wmdgznzx.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:03:02 +0000 Message-ID: <87zfia2kbt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76503 Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>, Christopher Baines <guix@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, First off, full disclosure: Along with Ricardo, I wrote most of mumi and the underlying guile libraries. So, I am simultaneously saddened and relieved that we are deprecating mumi and moving to Codeberg=E2=80=94sadden= ed because mumi was many years of work, and relieved because I do not have to bear any responsibility for the future! So, very mixed feelings. :-) And, while I strongly prefer the email workflow, I concede that moving to a pull request workflow will lower the barrier to entry simply because it is more familiar thanks to GitHub's dominant mindshare. So, unless there is significant support for mumi and the email workflow, I will stand aside and go with the flow of the community. That said, my arguments against Codeberg follow. GitHub invented the fork+pull-request workflow. Despite git's under-the-hood hardlinking magic, the pull request workflow is very expensive in terms of disk space. Every fork takes up disk space, and we need one fork per contributor. That's an enormous amount of disk space. Now, I would think git's object storage model makes it easy to deduplicate storage. But apparently, it's not that simple. GitHub does complex software engineering behind the scenes to make it all seem easy. See [1] for details. Cash-strapped and labour-starved community projects like Codeberg/Forgejo don't (yet?) have the means to replicate such cloud-scale software engineering. In fact, I am not speculating here; Codeberg openly mentions this in [2]. Codeberg is already strapped for storage and is introducing storage quotas[3] to make up for it. The storage issue is particularly pertinent considering how big of a project we are and how big our git repo is. At this moment, our git repo is close to 1 GiB in size. Incidentally, that's already bigger than the 750 MiB Codeberg storage quota. Codeberg is willing to allocate more storage on a per-project basis, but you have to request for it. Now, we have a little more than 1K contributors. That means, we are already up to 1 TiB in storage. That's enormous, especially considering that all data on Codeberg combined adds up to only 12 TiB[3]. And, for comparison, all our substitutes stored up from the founding of Guix only add up to about 25 TiB[4]. Now, imagine we had a 10-fold increase in contributors=E2=80=94a prospect that's pretty easy considering drive-by contributors=E2=80=94we would be up to 10 TiB in storage for our git repo. That's ginormous! We would be putting a lot of stress on a tiny community organization. Then, there's the bandwidth issue as well. Our git repo is not merely a development repo. Every Guix user clones[5] it and pulls from it regularly. As the Guix userbase grows, this will be an increasingly heavy toll on Codeberg's bandwidth. [2] already alludes to occasional slowness when the load is high. Even if we move to Codeberg, we should maintain a mirror of the git repo on our own machines that is actually capable of serving a large userbase. I was present with Ludo and others when we visited the Codeberg stall at FOSDEM, and enquired about the possibility of hosting Guix on Codeberg. The person at the stall was hesitant about our large repo, and our many users. In fact, in order to save on disk space, they suggested that we encourage our contributors to delete their forks once done. :-D Needless to say, that's never going to happen! As well-intentioned as Codeberg is, a single non-profit hoping to host all the git repos in the world in perpetuity and free of charge is a very tough proposition. Technical solutions like federation that may mitigate this are unlikely to materialize, especially in the short term. More likely, Codeberg may go the way of Matrix, where federation is possible in theory, but matrix.org is the only server in practice. It would be nice if we were just a normal software project that could fit well into a traditional forge. But, we are not. We are a "distribution", and "distributing" is part of our core competency. Critical parts of our distribution infrastructure should be directly under our own control. We are a large enough and specialized enough organization that this is necessary. [1]: https://github.blog/open-source/git/counting-objects/ [2]: https://blog.codeberg.org/the-hardest-scaling-issue.html [3]: https://blog.codeberg.org/more-power-for-you-what-a-storage-quota-will-brin= g.html [4]: number from Chris Baines [5]: Quick digression: Users must actually download about 1 GiB of data on their first guix pull. That's frustrating to new users, and effectively excludes users from parts of the world where a good Internet connection cannot be taken for granted. Cheers, Arun
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: Benjamin Slade <slade@HIDDEN>
To: 76503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: forge-based workflow
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:02:17 -0600
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Hi Ludo=E2=80=99,
I think this is an excellent proposal. I've contributed over the years to G=
uix by sending email patches to debbugs, but I usually forgot each time exa=
ctly the best practices and usually someone (often you) has had to amend th=
em slightly before merging. (And then I've got stuck contributing things li=
ke the `python-ical2orgpy', which required writing definitions for its pyth=
on package dependencies, and figuring out how to properly send the patch se=
ries.) And finding things in email is often more cognitively difficult to k=
eep all the pieces and steps involved in doing it properly. Since I've used=
to forge-based workflows from contributing to other projects, I think this=
would significantly reduce barriers for managing to actually getting round=
to contribute upstream. (I've got my own channel I use for things and a wh=
ole Org TODO list of things I want to submit upstream.)
I would also think a forge could make review and merge workflows smoother.
I'm very excited about this possibility. Thanks again for this proposal!
best,
=C2=A0=E2=80=94Benjamin
--
=C2=A0'(Dr Benjamin Slade (he/him)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(website . <https://lambda-y.net>)=20=20=20=
=20=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0`(pgp_fp: ,(B20E 444C FA80 B5F8 15FA 4AD8 6F=
BF CD68 3B05 2B84))
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"sent by [mu4e] 1.12.8 in [Emacs]=
30.0.93 with [org-msg] on [GNU Guix] ([Linux])")
[mu4e] <https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html>
[Emacs] <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/>
[org-msg] <https://github.com/jeremy-compostella/org-msg>
[GNU Guix] <https://guix.gnu.org/>
[Linux] <https://opensource.com/resources/linux>
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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang=3D"en" xml:lang=3D"en"><h=
ead><!-- 2025-02-23 Sun 16:02 --><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=
=3D"text/html;charset=3Dutf-8"/><meta name=3D"viewport" content=3D"width=3D=
device-width, initial-scale=3D1"/><meta name=3D"generator" content=3D"Org M=
ode"/></head><body>
<div style=3D"font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos","=
;Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pro",&q=
uot;Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway","Cousine=
","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvetica",=
"sans-serif";font-size:11pt;line-height:12pt;" id=3D"content">
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
Hi Ludo=E2=80=99,<br/></p>
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
I think this is an excellent proposal. I=E2=80=99ve contributed over the ye=
ars to Guix by sending email patches to debbugs, but I usually forgot each =
time exactly the best practices and usually someone (often you) has had to =
amend them slightly before merging. (And then I=E2=80=99ve got stuck contri=
buting things like the `python-ical2orgpy=E2=80=99, which required writing =
definitions for its python package dependencies, and figuring out how to pr=
operly send the patch series.) And finding things in email is often more co=
gnitively difficult to keep all the pieces and steps involved in doing it p=
roperly. Since I=E2=80=99ve used to forge-based workflows from contributing=
to other projects, I think this would significantly reduce barriers for ma=
naging to actually getting round to contribute upstream. (I=E2=80=99ve got =
my own channel I use for things and a whole Org TODO list of things I want =
to submit upstream.)<br/></p>
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
I would also think a forge could make review and merge workflows smoother.<=
br/></p>
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
I=E2=80=99m very excited about this possibility. Thanks again for this prop=
osal!<br/></p>
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
best,<br/>
=E2=80=94Benjamin<br/></p>
<div style=3D"font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos","=
;Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pro",&q=
uot;Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway","Cousine=
","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvetica",=
"sans-serif";font-size:11pt;margin-bottom:20px;font-family:"=
IBM Plex Sans","Aptos","Source Sans","Source =
Sans 3","Source Sans Pro","Trebuchet MS","Ubu=
ntu","Raleway","Cousine","Courier New",&=
quot;Noto Sans","Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size=
:11pt;line-height:12pt;" id=3D"orgda19f9c">
<p style=3D"text-decoration:none;margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:10px;line-hei=
ght:12pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"IBM Plex Sans","Aptos&q=
uot;,"Source Sans","Source Sans 3","Source Sans Pr=
o","Trebuchet MS","Ubuntu","Raleway",&qu=
ot;Cousine","Courier New","Noto Sans","Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";">
=E2=80=93<br/>
'(Dr Benjamin Slade (he/him)<br/>
(website . <a style=3D"color:#0071c5;" href=3D"https://lambda-y.net">h=
ttps://lambda-y.net</a>)<br/>
`(pgp_fp: ,(B20E 444C FA80 B5F8 15FA 4AD8 6FBF CD68 3B05 2B84))<br/>
=E2=80=9Csent by <a style=3D"color:#0071c5;" href=3D"https://www.djc=
bsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html">mu4e</a> 1.12.8 in <a style=3D"color:#0071c=
5;" href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/">Emacs</a> 30.0.93 with <a =
style=3D"color:#0071c5;" href=3D"https://github.com/jeremy-compostella/org-=
msg">org-msg</a> on <a style=3D"color:#0071c5;" href=3D"https://guix.gnu.or=
g/">GNU Guix</a> (<a style=3D"color:#0071c5;" href=3D"https://opensource.co=
m/resources/linux">Linux</a>)=E2=80=9D)<br/></p>
</div>
</div>
</body></html>
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Subject: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
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Hello Guix!
This is the formal submission of =E2=80=9CMigrating repositories, issues, a=
nd
patches to Codeberg=E2=80=9D (GCD 002), a preliminary draft of which I post=
ed
before the Guix Days=E2=81=B0.
In accordance with the GCD Process, discussion will end on April 23rd at
the latest.
I would like to remind everyone that you can try out Codeberg either by
contributing to one of the Guix-Science repositories=C2=B9, or by reviewing
or making a pull request for a trivial packaging change (and nothing
more!) in my Guix clone at Codeberg:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00313.html
Please do try it especially if you feel reluctant or wonder what the
workflow would be like.
Ludo=E2=80=99.
=E2=81=B0 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-01/msg00218.ht=
ml
=C2=B9 https://codeberg.org/guix-science
--=-=-=
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Content-Disposition: inline; filename=002-codeberg.md
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: The GCD.
title: Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg
id: 002
status: submitted
discussion: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/<number assigned by issue tracker>
authors: Ludovic Court=C3=A8s
sponsors: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice, Ricardo Wurmus
date-submitted: 2025-02-23
date: 2025-02-23
SPDX-License-Identifier: CC-BY-SA-4.0 OR GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later
---
# Summary
The contribution workflow in Guix has been facing several challenges:
difficult onboarding, lack of legibility, complex, unreliable, and
labor-intensive infrastructure, and lack of automation. All these lead
to an experience that contributors often find frustrating and hinders
quality assurance efforts. We propose to address these limitations by
migrating repositories, issue tracking, and patch tracking to Codeberg,
a =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D forge hosted by a non-profit.
# Motivation
To keep track of bug reports and patches, Guix historically chose tools
that were *simple* in their design:
- bug reports and patches can be sent by plain email, without having
to create an account or even subscribe to a mailing list;
- discussion and patch review happen naturally by email, without
requiring special tools;
- the Debbugs instance at https://bugs.gnu.org keeps track of bug
reports and patches by assigning them an identifier and creating a
mailing list specifically for each bug or patch.
=09
However, to overcome several limitations, the project developed
processes and tools, which can be characterized as *incidental
complexity*:
- because the Debbugs web interface is crude by today=E2=80=99s standards=
and
hard to search and navigate, the project developed
[mumi](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/mumi.git/), the web
interface running at https://issues.guix.gnu.org;
- to navigate bugs and patches more conveniently than what an email
client supports, contributors were
[encouraged](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Debbugs-Use=
r-Interfaces.html)
to use interfaces like `debbugs.el` or `b4`;
- sending patch series by email does not play well with Debbugs=E2=80=99
automatic identifier assignment, so [contributors were told to send
their =E2=80=9Ccover letter=E2=80=9D, wait for an identifier to be assi=
gned, and
then send the
rest](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Sending-a-Patch-Se=
ries.html#Multiple-Patches-1);
- to help sending and applying patch series, mumi was extended to
provide a command line interface;
- to build patch series submitted by email, the [QA
service](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) has to rely on a [Patchwork
instance](https://patches.guix-patches.cbaines.net/project/guix-patches=
/list/)
that is subscribed to the `guix-patches` mailing list, coupled with
its own [parsing of incoming
email](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dguix/data-service.git;a=
=3Dblob;f=3Dguix-data-service/branch-updated-emails.scm;h=3Daeb1570dfda7258=
64a77780d0541f26c090b0e55;hb=3Dc886685e9284da4bbed9377f70dd70da9e7ca29f);
- the project added a commit hook to create add unique `Change-Id`
headers in commit messages in an attempt to correlate commits in the
repository with messages send to `guix-patches`; none of the
existing tools takes advantage of it though, and it is up to
contributors to manually close entries in the bug/patch tracker once
they have been fixed/applied.
Developing and maintaining this software and infrastructure is
time-consuming. Worse, it leaves contributors largely dissatisfied for
a variety of reasons:
- the process is unfamiliar to most newcomers;
- the tools and infrastructure in Guix have become a maze;
- apart from the happy few using `debbugs.el` in Emacs, navigating
open issues and patches is hard; filtering incoming messages is
equally hard, even for those with 10+ years of experience with
advanced email tools (Gnus, mu4e, notmuch, b4, etc.);
- because the various parts of the development process (repository,
issue tracking, QA automation, `etc/teams.scm`) are largely
disconnected, even long-time contributors can hardly follow issues
relevant to them; issues may remain open after they=E2=80=99ve been fix=
ed,
new activity on an issue may go unnoticed, cross-references among
issues are not visible in any of the interfaces, etc.
All this contributes to a [poor
experience](https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2025/guix-user-and-contributor-sur=
vey-2024-the-results-part-3/)
for those who choose to contribute despite the barrier to entry,
probably discourages many to even start contributing, and adds to the
load of committers and infrastructure maintainers.
# Detailed Design
This section explains the chosen solution among the available options,
the scope of the proposed migration, a migration path, and an outlook on
automation.
## Choice of a Forge
We set out to choose a =E2=80=9Cmodern forge=E2=80=9D that supports a pull-=
request style
workflow and provides good integration between the repository, the issue
tracker, and the merge request tracker. Such a system is necessarily
more *complex* at first glance than the email-based tools we have but
(1)=C2=A0the increase in complexity is reasonable once we consider the
incidental complexity of the existing services, as mentioned above, and
(2)=C2=A0we think the added usage benefits outweigh this increase in
complexity.
The software behind the forge has to be free software that is
*plausibly* self-hosted on Guix System=E2=80=94this probably rules out GitL=
ab
Community Edition and makes [Forgejo](https://forgejo.org/) the main
contender.
[SourceHut](https://sourcehut.org/), the other interesting option, does
not offer the same convenience when it comes to dealing with patches and
runs the risk of reproducing onboarding and integration issues
surrounding an email-based workflow and =E2=80=9Cread-only=E2=80=9D web int=
erface that
Guix is already experiencing.
Forgejo has several features to support collaboration among a large
number of people and on a large code base, including
[teams](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#teams)
and [issue and pull request
templates](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/issue-pull-request-template=
s/).
Support for
[federation](https://forgejo.org/2023-01-10-answering-forgejo-federation-qu=
estions/)
is also under development and is a promising way to avoid
centralization.
Instead of self-hosting, this GCD suggests using the Forgejo instance on
codeberg.org, run by the [Codeberg e.V.](https://codeberg.org/about)
non-profit, registered in Germany. The non-profit has a good track
record of running codeberg.org with minimal downtime, is [committed to
supporting free software
development](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/en/bylaws.md=
#preamble),
[transparent](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org), and has governance set
up to achieve its mission.
The Guix-Science umbrella project [has been using Codeberg for several
months
now](https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2025/01/join-the-guix-science-community/),
which has allowed us to gain confidence in its suitability for a project
like Guix.
## Rights and Privileges
Migration should preserve rights and privileges regarding access to the
repositories. To that end, we propose the following rules:
- Committers to several of the repositories listed above and [Savannah
=E2=80=9Cgroup admins=E2=80=9D](https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/guix)=
can request
membership in the [=E2=80=9COwners=E2=80=9D
team](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#team=
s)
of the [Guix *organization*](https://codeberg.org/guix). As of this
writing, only three people are members.
- Anyone listed the `.guix-authorizations` file of Guix can request
membership of the https://codeberg.org/guix/guix once it is created.
- Committers to one of the other repositories can request membership
of that repository.
In the future, we should extend the [=E2=80=9CCommit
Rights=E2=80=9D](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Commit-Acce=
ss.html)
section of the manual to clarify the distinction between being a member
of the organization and being a member of a specific repository, in a
specific team.
## Repository Migration Path
The Guix project at Savannah contains the following repositories:
- [Guix itself](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git);
- [the bootstrappable.org web
site](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/bootstrappable.git);
- [the DHCP client in
Guile](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/dhcp.git) (forgotten
2015 Google Summer of Code project);
- [Guile bindings to
GNUnet](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/gnunet.git) (forgotten
2015 Google Summer of Code project);
- [Guix artwork and web
site](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-artwork.git);
- [Cuirass](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-cuirass.git);
- [=E2=80=9Cmaintenance=E2=80=9D
repository](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/maintenance.git)
(includes Guix System infrastructure configuration, talks, and other
documents);
- [scripts for videos presenting
Guix](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/videos.git);
- [Guix Data
Service](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/data-service.git);
- [Emacs-Guix](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/emacs-guix.git);
- [Guix Build
Coordinator](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/build-coordinator.gi=
t);
- [nar-herder](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/nar-herder.git);
- [QA
Frontpage](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/qa-frontpage.git);
- [mumi](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/mumi.git);
- [Guix Consensus
Documents](https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/guix-consensus-documen=
ts.git).
=09
Within **30 days** following acceptance of this GCD, committers would
migrate all these repositories to https://codeberg.org/guix.
For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. On
that day, the official URL of the Guix repository would become
https://codeberg.org/guix/guix.git. A commit would reflect that by
updating:
1. the `url` field in `.guix-channel`;
2. the `%default-channel-url` variable in `(guix channels)`;
3. any other reference to the URL that may appear in the repository,
in particular in the manual.
=20=20
To ease this migration and possibly future migration, we may add a new
`git.guix.gnu.org` DNS entry with HTTP redirects to
`git.savannah.gnu.org` (before migration) and `codeberg.org` (after
migration); a [patch](https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76296) implementing
this has been submitted. The `%default-channel-url` variable would
refer to `https://git.guix.gnu.org/guix.git`.
Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the
migration. See [this entry in
Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/commit/fd1b2da=
cd8d37c9d1939f9dc5a5b74256171ccbd)
for an example.
The Savannah `guix.git` repository would become a mirror of the one at
Codeberg, with a script periodically updating it for **at least one
year** after the switch, as a way to ease migration to the new
repository for users. Other repositories would be deleted from Savannah
once migrated, to avoid confusion.
## Issue Tracker Migration Path
Importing all the issues and patches from Debbugs/mumi into Codeberg
would be impractical: it would require the development of specific
tools, would be a lossy process due to the fundamental mismatch between
plain text email threads and Forgejo issues and pull requests, and would
bring little in return.
Our proposal is the following:
- https://issues.guix.gnu.org will remain up and running for at least
**two years** following acceptance of this GCD. Note that once
issues.guix.gnu.org is down, issues will remain visible at
https://bugs.gnu.org and email archives will remain visible at
https://mail.gnu.org.
- Within **30 days** after acceptance of this GCD, mailing list
administrators will set up the `bug-guix` and `guix-patches` mailing
lists in =E2=80=9CEmergency Moderation=E2=80=9D mode in the Mailman
interface=E2=80=94meaning that messages will not get through anymore. =
It
will still be possible to interact on individual issues via
`NNN <at> debbugs.gnu.org`.
- The switchover will be advertised before it takes place with a post
to `info-guix@HIDDEN`, to `guix-devel@HIDDEN`, as well as through
a blog post.
- The =E2=80=9CContributing=E2=80=9D section of the manual will be update=
d accordingly
at that time.
=09
## User Interfaces
For many contributors, a strength of the email-based workflow is that it
works out of the browser, possibly offline; we want to preserve that
comfort as much as possible.
Everything that can be done through Forgejo=E2=80=99s web interface can be =
done
*via* its [HTTP
interface](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/api-usage/). This has
given rise to several Emacs and command-line interfaces that existing
contributors may find convenient.
[forgejo-cli](https://codeberg.org/Cyborus/forgejo-cli/) and
[codeberg-cli](https://codeberg.org/Aviac/codeberg-cli) provide rather
comprehensive command-line interfaces, as [reported by
Efraim](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00057.html=
).
[fj.el](https://codeberg.org/martianh/fj.el/) is an Emacs interface
similar to `mastodon.el` that lets you view and comment on issues and
pull requests, list repositories, view notifications, and so on. It
does not support off-line access. It can be set up with something like:
```lisp
(with-eval-after-load 'fj
(setq fj-host "https://codeberg.org")
(setq fj-user "civodul")
(setq fj-token
(funcall (plist-get
(car
(auth-source-search :host "codeberg.org/api/v1"
:user fj-user
:type 'netrc))
:secret))))
```
=E2=80=A6 and a line like this one to `~/.authinfo.gpg`:
```
machine codeberg.org/api/v1 login civodul password TOKEN
```
=E2=80=A6 where `TOKEN` is the [token obtained from
Codeberg](https://docs.codeberg.org/advanced/access-token/).
[Magit-Forge](https://github.com/magit/forge/) is another Emacs
interface to forges, with Magit integration and support for working
off-line. However, Forgejo support is currently next to nonexistent:
only `forge-browse` is supported (allowing users to open a browser on a
forge page).
Besides these interfaces, there is a couple of tricks that can simplify
the life of contributors and reviewers, out of the browser.
As a contributor, you can create pull requests without first creating a
fork and then a merge request thanks to the [AGit
workflow](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/agit-support/). This
works by passing `git push` the relevant *options*, as in this example:
```
git push origin HEAD:refs/for/main \
-o topic=3D"update-hello" \
-o title=3D"gnu: hello: Update to 42." \
-o description=3D'This updates the `hello` package."
```
As a reviewer, it is possible to pull references of pending pull
requests by adding something like this to `.git/config`:
```
[remote "pulls"]
url =3D git@HIDDEN:org/guix-science/guix-science.git
fetch =3D +refs/pull/*/head:refs/remotes/pulls/pr/*
```
Running `git fetch pulls` then retrieves references to branches
corresponding to all the pull requests.
## Teams
All the teams currently defined in `etc/teams.scm` will be reified as
[teams](https://docs.codeberg.org/collaborating/create-organization/#teams)
in the [Guix organization](https://codeberg.org/guix).
All these teams would have read-only access to the repositories, with
the exception of a new *Committers* team, with read-write access to the
repository, which would contain all the people who already have [commit
rights on
Savannah](https://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group=3Dguix)
(=E2=80=9Con-duty members=E2=80=9D).
Team scopes in `etc/teams.scm` will be converted to a `CODEOWNERS` file
similar to [that found in
Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science/guix-science/src/branch/mas=
ter/CODEOWNERS).
That way, pull requests will automatically have them suggested as
reviewers for changes in their scope.
## Continuous Integration
Forgejo supports
[*webhooks*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/webhooks/), `POST`
requests that are sent to the server of one=E2=80=99s choice upon events su=
ch as
pull request creation. Cuirass (running at ci.guix.gnu.org) already
[supports](https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2025/01/join-the-guix-science-communi=
ty/)
them and automatically creates a *jobset* when a pull request is made.
The [QA frontpage](https://qa.guix.gnu.org) and its [Data
Service](https://data.qa.guix.gnu.org) does not support Forgejo webhooks
yet but can be extended to do so without too much effort, possibly
sharing or reusing the Forgejo interface code from Cuirass.
In the Guix repository, we will set up webhooks to trigger the creation
of a new jobset at ci.guix.gnu.org (Cuirass) as soon as migration is
complete. While this has been successfully used for several months for
[Guix-Science](https://codeberg.org/guix-science), scalability will be
the major concern here; additional developments may be needed to
consolidate this support. Eventually the QA frontpage will also support
those webhooks.
We will arrange so that the build status of a pull request is clearly
visible right from that pull request.
Eventually, the QA service or a [Forgejo
*action*](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/actions/) may
automatically provide feedback from `guix lint` as a reply to pull
requests.
## Workflow
Once continuous integration (CI) is fully operational, pull requests may
be merged if and only if they successfully built. =E2=80=9CWorld-rebuild=
=E2=80=9D pull
requests would still follow the [existing branching
process](https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Managing-Patches-an=
d-Branches.html).
Note that since Guix requires signed commits by people listed in
`.guix-authorizations`, we will *not* be able to click the =E2=80=9CMerge=
=E2=80=9D
button nor to enable auto-merge on build success.
If and when the project migrates, we will incrementally adjust our
workflow to ensure it scales better.
## Translation
We may eventually consider migrating translation work from [Fedora=E2=80=99s
Weblate](https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/guix/) to
[Codeberg=E2=80=99s](https://docs.codeberg.org/codeberg-translate/), as a w=
ay to
make it more discoverable and better integrated.
# Cost of Reverting
While the project *could* migrate back from Codeberg to bugs.gnu.org
(Debbugs), migrating issues and pull requests from Codeberg to Debbugs
would be practically infeasible. It is unlikely that anyone would want
this.
A more interesting question is: what would it take to migrate to a
different Forgejo instance or to a different forge?
Migrating to a different Forgejo instance would be rather simple since
Forgejo is able to *import* entire repositories with their settings
(including teams) and issues and pull requests from other instances.
Users would have to create accounts on the new forge instance though.
However, if federation support matures in Forgejo, one may be able to
operate on a repository from distinct but *federated* instances. That
would make any move much easier.
Forgejo appears to support
[=E2=80=9Cmirroring=E2=80=9D](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/repo-mir=
ror/) to
GitLab instances, for instance, which could help migrating to a GitLab
instance. Migrating to a sourcehut instance would probably be more
difficult because of the feature mismatch.
Note that Forgejo offers a [rich HTTP
interface](https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/api-usage/) that
essentially allows users to get the raw data behind issues, pull
requests, and more, meaning that it is theoretically always possible to
grab the data.
# Drawbacks and Open Issues
Leaving it up to an external organization to manage critical
infrastructure of our project comes with risks.
First, everyone will have to create an account and accept [Codeberg=E2=80=
=99s
Terms of
Use](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/main/TermsOfUse.md)
before they can contribute, which can be seen as a step back compared to
the email-based workflow.
Codeberg e.V., the non-profit that runs Codeberg, could always go
bankrupt, suffer from governance issues, or run into problems that any
non-profits face and which could lead to service discontinuation. This
could be mitigated by weaving close ties with Codeberg e.V., for
instance by financially supporting it, by setting a joint team to
monitor resource consumption induced by Guix and discuss any issues
encountered by either parties proactively, or by [joining
it](https://join.codeberg.org/) as an active member with voting rights.
The self-hosting option has its appeal for a project with the size and
values of Guix=E2=80=94it is not uncommon for similar projects to do that, =
an
example being the [Lix project](https://git.lix.systems/); there even
exists a [preliminary Forgejo service for
Guix](https://git.boiledscript.com/hako/Rosenthal/src/commit/7a6a28e872b316=
8f9b6513ccf797e247cd8a366d/rosenthal/services/web.scm#L32).
However the author thinks that, as it stands, Guix system administrators
have more than enough on their plate and are perhaps not up to the task
of providing the availability guarantees we expect from such a service.
As of this writing, Forgejo integration in Cuirass is functional but
partial (useful configuration options and hardening mechanisms are
missing) and missing from QA-Frontpage. This will have to be addressed
to fully take advantage of the new pull-request workflow.
--=-=-=--
Ludovic Courtès <ludo@HIDDEN>:guix-devel@HIDDEN, guix-patches@HIDDEN.
Full text available.guix-devel@HIDDEN, guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76503; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.