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Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Resent-From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>
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**** Title
dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.

**** Description

Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the =
point to=20

**** Environment
GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS appkit-2575.40 =
Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

**** Steps to Reproduce
1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
2. Open subdir in Dired.
3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir


**** Expected Result
Point should land on subdir.

**** Actual Result
Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as =
removing it (C-u k).




In GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS
appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25 built on
bingsu.local
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575
System Description:  macOS 15.3.1

Configured using:
'configure --prefix=3D/opt/local --disable-silent-rules --without-dbus
--without-gconf --without-libotf --without-m17n-flt --with-libgmp
--with-gnutls --with-xml2 --with-modules --with-sqlite3 --with-webp
--with-native-compilation=3Daot --infodir /opt/local/share/info/emacs
--disable-gc-mark-trace --with-ns --with-lcms2 --without-harfbuzz
--without-imagemagick --without-xaw3d --with-rsvg --with-tree-sitter
'CFLAGS=3D-pipe -Os -Wno-attributes
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk -arch
arm64' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-I/opt/local/include
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk'
'LDFLAGS=3D-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-headerpad_max_install_names -Wl,-no_pie
-Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib/gcc14 -Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib
-Wl,-syslibroot,/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk
-arch arm64''

Configured features:
ACL GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY
KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB

Important settings:
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Major mode: Org

Minor modes in effect:
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  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
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  menu-bar-mode: t
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  context-menu-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  visual-line-mode: t
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  auto-composition-mode: t
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  auto-compression-mode: t

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Features:
(shadow mail-extr emacsbug hippie-exp elfeed-link keycast cus-start
emacs-news-mode org-goto windmove scroll-lock help-fns ...)

Memory information:
((conses 16 2115083 235089) (symbols 48 74485 2) (strings 32 375561 =
21084)
(string-bytes 1 11276924) (vectors 16 161157) (vector-slots 8 2658645 =
247053)
(floats 8 1594 19970) (intervals 56 57107 4124) (buffers 992 128))

=E2=80=94
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas@HIDDEN

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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#76596: Acknowledgement (30.1; dired-movement-style does not
 honor subdir operations)
Message-ID: <handler.76596.B.174060040822736.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN>
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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 07:54:01 +0000
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Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
Cc: 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:53:01 +0200
Message-Id: <867c5bvn6q.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN> (message from
 Charles Choi on Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800)
References: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN>
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> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800
> 
> 
> **** Title
> dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.
> 
> **** Description
> 
> Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the point to 
> 
> **** Environment
> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
> i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
> **** Steps to Reproduce
> 1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
> 2. Open subdir in Dired.
> 3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
> 4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
> 5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir
> 
> 
> **** Expected Result
> Point should land on subdir.
> 
> **** Actual Result
> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).

Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
Dired thinks it's an empty line.

Charles, does the patch below give good results?

Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
branch.

diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el
index 90d944c..17c8ba5 100644
--- a/lisp/dired.el
+++ b/lisp/dired.el
@@ -2888,15 +2888,19 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
           (setq wrapped t))
          ;; `bounded': go back to the last non-empty line.
          (dired-movement-style ; Either 'bounded or anything else non-nil.
-          (while (and (dired-between-files) (not (zerop arg)))
+          (while (and (dired-between-files)
+                      (not (dired-get-subdir))
+                      (not (zerop arg)))
             (funcall jumpfun (- moving-down))
             ;; Point not moving means infinite loop.
             (if (= old-position (point))
                 (setq arg 0)
               (setq old-position (point))))
           ;; Encountered a boundary, so let's stop movement.
-          (setq arg (if (dired-between-files) 0 moving-down)))))
-      (unless (dired-between-files)
+          (setq arg (if (and (dired-between-files)
+                             (not (dired-get-subdir)))
+                        0 moving-down)))))
+      (unless (and (dired-between-files) (not (dired-get-subdir)))
         ;; Has moved to a non-empty line.  This movement does
         ;; make sense.
         (cl-decf arg moving-down))

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Resent-From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Cc: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
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Organization: LINKOV.NET
References: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN>
 <867c5bvn6q.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:52:05 +0200
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>> **** Expected Result
>> Point should land on subdir.
>> 
>> **** Actual Result
>> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).
>
> Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> Dired thinks it's an empty line.
>
> Charles, does the patch below give good results?
>
> Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> branch.

I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n, since there are already
special commands to visit subdir lines with C-M-n, C-M-p and M-G.

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Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
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Juri -

The notion of navigation only by type is I think too restrictive, =
particularly for dired-next-line and dired-previous-line.

My expectation is that those two commands should also work on subdirs, =
and I don't think I'm alone in thinking this.


Charles

=E2=80=94
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas@HIDDEN





> On Feb 27, 2025, at 9:52=E2=80=AFAM, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n, since there are already
> special commands to visit subdir lines with C-M-n, C-M-p and M-G.

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Eli -=20

Thanks much for the response. I=E2=80=99ve manually applied the patch to =
my local dired.el and have verified that the expected behavior for =
dired-next-line and dired-previous-line to move the point on a subdir =
works for all values of dired-movement-style.


All my best -=20

Charles

=E2=80=94
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas@HIDDEN





> On Feb 26, 2025, at 11:53=E2=80=AFPM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
>> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800
>>=20
>>=20
>> **** Title
>> dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.
>>=20
>> **** Description
>>=20
>> Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the =
point to=20
>>=20
>> **** Environment
>> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS =
appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
>> i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>=20
>> **** Steps to Reproduce
>> 1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
>> 2. Open subdir in Dired.
>> 3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
>> 4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
>> 5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir
>>=20
>>=20
>> **** Expected Result
>> Point should land on subdir.
>>=20
>> **** Actual Result
>> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as =
removing it (C-u k).
>=20
> Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> Dired thinks it's an empty line.
>=20
> Charles, does the patch below give good results?
>=20
> Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> branch.
>=20
> diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el
> index 90d944c..17c8ba5 100644
> --- a/lisp/dired.el
> +++ b/lisp/dired.el
> @@ -2888,15 +2888,19 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
>           (setq wrapped t))
>          ;; `bounded': go back to the last non-empty line.
>          (dired-movement-style ; Either 'bounded or anything else =
non-nil.
> -          (while (and (dired-between-files) (not (zerop arg)))
> +          (while (and (dired-between-files)
> +                      (not (dired-get-subdir))
> +                      (not (zerop arg)))
>             (funcall jumpfun (- moving-down))
>             ;; Point not moving means infinite loop.
>             (if (=3D old-position (point))
>                 (setq arg 0)
>               (setq old-position (point))))
>           ;; Encountered a boundary, so let's stop movement.
> -          (setq arg (if (dired-between-files) 0 moving-down)))))
> -      (unless (dired-between-files)
> +          (setq arg (if (and (dired-between-files)
> +                             (not (dired-get-subdir)))
> +                        0 moving-down)))))
> +      (unless (and (dired-between-files) (not (dired-get-subdir)))
>         ;; Has moved to a non-empty line.  This movement does
>         ;; make sense.
>         (cl-decf arg moving-down))

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> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Charles Choi <kickingvegas@HIDDEN>,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:52:05 +0200
> 
> >> **** Expected Result
> >> Point should land on subdir.
> >> 
> >> **** Actual Result
> >> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).
> >
> > Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> > dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> > Dired thinks it's an empty line.
> >
> > Charles, does the patch below give good results?
> >
> > Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> > branch.
> 
> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,

I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.

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severity 76596 minor
quit

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>> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
>> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
>> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
>
> I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.

Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
Or by a new value of the existing option?

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> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> Cc: kickingvegas@HIDDEN,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:12:58 +0200
> 
> >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
> >
> > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
> 
> Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
> Or by a new value of the existing option?

Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
have both behaviors.

Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
adding the new value(s)?

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Eli -=20


It is not clear to me the value of having an option to prevent =
navigating to subdirs to reproduce the behavior shipped in 30.1. Why =
enforce two separate commands of navigation based on type? To me, subdir =
navigation is a subset of line navigation where line navigation moves =
the point to any non-blank line, and subdir navigation only applies to =
subdirs.

If it is insisted that enforcing separate commands for type navigation =
(file/directory, subdir) be supported, then please do _not_ make this =
option the default for dired-movement-style. I still consider such an =
option to be a user interface mistake.

Respectfully -

Charles

=E2=80=94
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas@HIDDEN





> On Mar 4, 2025, at 6:57=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
> have both behaviors.
>=20
> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
> adding the new value(s)?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 21:49:33 +0200
Message-Id: <86o6ygpodu.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR10MB5232EB20BBC7A0F87982A859F3C82@HIDDEN>
 (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:38:02 +0000)
References: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN>
 <867c5bvn6q.fsf@HIDDEN> <874j0fwa0q.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <861pvjtbhy.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5a1nval.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
> CC: "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
>         Juri Linkov
> 	<juri@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:38:02 +0000
> 
> > It is not clear to me the value of having an option to prevent navigating
> > to subdirs to reproduce the behavior shipped in 30.1. Why enforce two
> > separate commands of navigation based on type? To me, subdir navigation is
> > a subset of line navigation where line navigation moves the point to any
> > non-blank line, and subdir navigation only applies to subdirs.
> > 
> > If it is insisted that enforcing separate commands for type navigation
> > (file/directory, subdir) be supported, then please do _not_ make this
> > option the default for dired-movement-style. I still consider such an
> > option to be a user interface mistake.
> 
> +1, for not preventing navigation to subdirs.
> 
> I even see no particular value in skipping
> blank lines!

This is all a tempest in a teapot.  We are discussing opt-in behavior,
so it should only matter to people who'd want to opt in.  People who
don't like these optional behaviors should not bother.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 12:02:16 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <8634fskfma.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Tue, 04
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References: <062BC3F1-D2C0-4077-9DB3-684717887E05@HIDDEN>
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Ping! Juri, could you please answer my question below?

> Cc: kickingvegas@HIDDEN, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 16:57:49 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> 
> > From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: kickingvegas@HIDDEN,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:12:58 +0200
> > 
> > >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> > >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> > >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
> > >
> > > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> > > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> > > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> > > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
> > 
> > Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
> > Or by a new value of the existing option?
> 
> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
> have both behaviors.
> 
> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
> adding the new value(s)?
> 
> 
> 
>

Last modified: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 10:15:02 UTC

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