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Subject: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you don't want date to guess
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Thread-Topic: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2024 20:29:44 +0000
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I suspect this has been requested many times over the decades but I haven=
't found anything in the issue tracker so...
The date command lets you choose my output format, but for input it tries=
=20to figure it out without hints.  For interactive use, this is great.
For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, because that means you nee=
d to understand the heuristics to have confidence that your script will d=
o what you want.
For instance, this page:
https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-d=
ate-strings.html
says that "If the decimal number is of the form yyyymmdd [...] yyyy is re=
ad as the year"
I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, thinking to myself "but=
=20how could it possibly KNOW that the number is of the form yyyymmdd??"
I finally realized that what it's really saying is that "if the number is=
=20exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that the first four digits are the ye=
ar".
Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want to interpret differentl=
y then you should massage it before passing it to date.

As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indeed the built-in assumpti=
ons happen to be a perfect fit for me.
But I still don't like to rely on them if I don't have to, and would rath=
er just tell it what I already know, instead of forcing date(1) to re-der=
ive it.

Thoughts?
Mark.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect this has been requested many times over =
the decades but I haven&#8217;t found anything in the issue tracker so&#8=
230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The date command lets you choose my output format,=
=20but for input it tries to figure it out without hints.&nbsp; For inter=
active use, this is great.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, bec=
ause that means you need to understand the heuristics to have confidence =
that your script will do what you want.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For instance, this page:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/=
manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html">https://www.gnu.org/s=
oftware/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">says that &#8220;If the decimal number is of the f=
orm yyyymmdd [&#8230;] yyyy is read as the year&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, =
thinking to myself &#8220;but how could it possibly KNOW that the number =
is of the form yyyymmdd??&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I finally realized that what it&#8217;s really say=
ing is that &#8220;if the number is exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that=
=20the first four digits are the year&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want =
to interpret differently then you should massage it before passing it to =
date.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indee=
d the built-in assumptions happen to be a perfect fit for me.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But I still don&#8217;t like to rely on them if I =
don&#8217;t have to, and would rather just tell it what I already know, i=
nstead of forcing date(1) to re-derive it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>

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Subject: bug#72023: Acknowledgement (feature request for date(1):
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Subject: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you don't want date to guess
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I'm dubious. I've never had much luck with strptime, as in practice it 
has its own glitches that are even worse than what 'date' currently 
uses. For example, it's dicey in non-C locales, and it mishandles time 
zones and daylight saving transitions even in the C locale.

That being said, if someone can write the code and documentation and 
test cases it might be a good thing to have - particularly if some other 
'date' implementation is already doing that sort of thing and people 
have had good experience with it.

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Subject: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you don't want date to guess
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On 7/10/24 13:59, mark.yagnatinsky--- via GNU coreutils Bug Reports wrote:
> BSD date has this flag

Unfortunately it uses -f for the flag, and -f already has a 
well-established different meaning in GNU 'date'. We could add it to GNU 
date under a different (long) option name, though we'd still be 
incompatible with BSD 'date'.

Again, if someone wants to write the code and (just as important) 
documentation, and also the tests, go for it. I tend to think strptime 
is a mistake, so I'm not likely to volunteer.

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From: <mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN>
Thread-Topic: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format
 string when you don't want date to guess
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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 13:12:00 +0000
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On 7/10/24 15:12, mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN wrote:
> Re: strptime is mistake: you think that particular function is bad

Yes, though I lack the time to go into details right now.

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Subject: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format
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From: Stephane Chazelas <stephane@HIDDEN>
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I agree strptime()-style input format specification is badly
missing in GNU date. Most other implementations support it:

- BSD with -f since 1997 (on FreeBSD at least; see also -v for adjustments)
- ast-open's with -p since 2004 (also via standard getdate() DATEMSK)
- busybox' with -D since 2006
- toybox' with -D since 2014

It's a regular occurrence on usenet or unix.stackexchange.com to
see it mentioned that if you need to parse arbitrary date
formats, you need to switch to another date implementation or
use shell builtin facilities such as zsh's strftime builtin or
ksh93's printf %T or resort to perl/ruby/python...

Assaf Gordon did propose a patch in
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2019-07/msg00053.html

Both -p and -D are unassigned ATM AFAICT so could be used here.
busybox and toybox mostly copied the GNU API, so it would make
sense for GNU date to use -D for that so they don't become
misaligned.

While strptime() is not perfect, it's still better IMO
than having to rely on the current -d behaviour which mostly
accepts only US-English time specs and whose rules to parse
times are not crystal clear.

-- 
Stephane

Last modified: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 05:45:02 UTC

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