Received: (at 72023) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2024 10:45:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 10 06:45:17 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sRUp3-0001QK-80 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 06:45:17 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:59104) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1sRUp1-00013c-NB for 72023 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 06:45:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809153C00E414; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10032) with ESMTP id qof3bWPZ4mf1; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 03:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76903C00E420; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 03:45:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu D76903C00E420 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1720608301; bh=iNa20bSqXqj0DOJWPTuEXoI5LvuwstP+r3zbWp7fbFc=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=HbD7Bgt2kzbNZCm+XCKGzGqz/p5u9TGeQl2ofJqYg228JVU29PIep4XrFgn7+IhSp JzYQEKgmPefTEquzUdBzi2yi9kCnfugmngyQ1eE9NwsTvW5TSekzIWQoTJPhIKe7zF 3uZKx4Vb3D8x+Y58k5JjdvnM909vDzHzMzApEEnjvMLSVkya42KHlONC0BRd9D8twe 8igU8Xp3K7qvP9StDCLK8YXtAksy3XNqDM5b5TGD5iA8/ayOev5g9yxxI/h3j7PFSm Bccrd53ArikxGAyoEF1uVfaoxoUVdnJjiJsN+p6rbEK9xgXv0KdpRN8eFa7l7LQinr Zh+Ts9Z/xPpgA== X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id 9g1w2kq9fXdt; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 03:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (i15-les02-ntr-176-181-187-105.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr [176.181.187.105]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 278EA3C00E414; Wed, 10 Jul 2024 03:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <24aef099-3224-417a-b0ee-06fea7ae0540@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 12:44:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you don't want date to guess To: mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN, 72023 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72023 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I'm dubious. I've never had much luck with strptime, as in practice it has its own glitches that are even worse than what 'date' currently uses. For example, it's dicey in non-C locales, and it mishandles time zones and daylight saving transitions even in the C locale. That being said, if someone can write the code and documentation and test cases it might be a good thing to have - particularly if some other 'date' implementation is already doing that sort of thing and people have had good experience with it.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#72023; Package coreutils.
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Subject: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you
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--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_
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I suspect this has been requested many times over the decades but I haven=
't found anything in the issue tracker so...
The date command lets you choose my output format, but for input it tries=
=20to figure it out without hints. For interactive use, this is great.
For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, because that means you nee=
d to understand the heuristics to have confidence that your script will d=
o what you want.
For instance, this page:
https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-d=
ate-strings.html
says that "If the decimal number is of the form yyyymmdd [...] yyyy is re=
ad as the year"
I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, thinking to myself "but=
=20how could it possibly KNOW that the number is of the form yyyymmdd??"
I finally realized that what it's really saying is that "if the number is=
=20exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that the first four digits are the ye=
ar".
Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want to interpret differentl=
y then you should massage it before passing it to date.
As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indeed the built-in assumpti=
ons happen to be a perfect fit for me.
But I still don't like to rely on them if I don't have to, and would rath=
er just tell it what I already know, instead of forcing date(1) to re-der=
ive it.
Thoughts?
Mark.
This message is for information purposes only. It is not a recommendation=
, advice, offer or solicitation to buy or sell a product or service, nor =
an official confirmation of any transaction. It is directed at persons wh=
o are professionals and is intended for the recipient(s) only. It is not =
directed at retail customers. This message is subject to the terms at: ht=
tps://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html.=20
For important disclosures, please see: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosure=
s/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.html regarding marketing commentary from B=
arclays Sales and/or Trading desks, who are active market participants; h=
ttps://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-disclosures.ht=
ml regarding our standard terms for Barclays Investment Bank where we tra=
de with you in principal-to-principal wholesale markets transactions; and=
=20in respect to Barclays Research, including disclosures relating to spe=
cific issuers, see: https://publicresearch.barclays.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________=20
If you are incorporated or operating in Australia, read these important d=
isclosures: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asi=
a-pacific.html.
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________
For more details about how we use personal information, see our privacy n=
otice: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html.=
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________
--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_
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p:break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect this has been requested many times over =
the decades but I haven’t found anything in the issue tracker so=
230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The date command lets you choose my output format,=
=20but for input it tries to figure it out without hints. For inter=
active use, this is great.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, bec=
ause that means you need to understand the heuristics to have confidence =
that your script will do what you want.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For instance, this page:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/=
manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html">https://www.gnu.org/s=
oftware/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">says that “If the decimal number is of the f=
orm yyyymmdd […] yyyy is read as the year”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, =
thinking to myself “but how could it possibly KNOW that the number =
is of the form yyyymmdd??”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I finally realized that what it’s really say=
ing is that “if the number is exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that=
=20the first four digits are the year”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want =
to interpret differently then you should massage it before passing it to =
date.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indee=
d the built-in assumptions happen to be a perfect fit for me.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But I still don’t like to rely on them if I =
don’t have to, and would rather just tell it what I already know, i=
nstead of forcing date(1) to re-derive it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<P><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">This message is =
for=20
information purposes only. It is not a recommendation, advice, offer or=20
solicitation to buy or sell a product or service, nor an official confirm=
ation=20
of any transaction. It is directed at persons who are professionals and i=
s=20
intended for the recipient(s) only. It is not directed at retail customer=
s. This=20
message is subject to the terms at: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html=
">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html</A>. =
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">For important di=
sclosures,=20
please see: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.=
html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.ht=
ml</A>=20
regarding marketing commentary from Barclays Sales and/or Trading desks, =
who are=20
active market participants; <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-discl=
osures.html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-=
disclosures.html</A>=20
regarding our standard terms for Barclays Investment Bank where we trade =
with=20
you in principal-to-principal wholesale markets transactions; and in resp=
ect to=20
Barclays Research, including disclosures relating to specific issuers, se=
e: <A=20
href=3D"https://publicresearch.barclays.com">https://publicresearch.barcl=
ays.com</A>.<BR>_________________________________________________________=
_________________________=20
<BR>If you are incorporated or operating in Australia, read these importa=
nt=20
disclosures: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asia-pa=
cific.html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asi=
a-pacific.html</A>.<BR>__________________________________________________=
________________________________<BR>For=20
more details about how we use personal information, see our privacy notic=
e: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html=
">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html</A>. =
<BR>_____________________________________________________________________=
_____________<BR></O:P></SPAN></P>
</body>
</html>
--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_--
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